[Matthew MacKay]

I've heard very little discussion from this group regarding public golf around Detroit. Is there little to discuss?

The only intriguing place I've researched is Rackham (bunkering looks decent from the aerial photos).

Can anybody comment on Rackham, or any other decent options?

Thanks

[JC Jones]

Just like up here in Lansing, there isnt much.

UofM's course is technically public but you have to be a student or be playing with a student to get on.

Otherwise its pretty typical Matthews, Hills, Hearn.  There is an RTJJr course down river in Washington I believe (The Orchards?), I have not played it though.

[Andy Ryall]

I lived for 2 years (2001-2003) about 500 yards from Rackham.   Home of the 6 hour weekend round and brutally slow greens.   Ross course from the 20's that had to be amended due to the construciton of i-696 in the 1980's, which made a couple of par 4s on the front into doglegs.  Tough Par 3s and a strong par 4 finishing hole.  You really have to get into the suburbs for some quality courses in Detroit.   I think the Orchards in Washington was one of the best.

[Doug Ralston]

I have heard good things about Shepard's Hollow and Lyon Oaks. Of course Michigan is dominated by great Art Hills courses [like Red Hawk and Bay Harbor]. Enjoy.

Doug

[Brett Hochstein]

just played a nine hole match at Rackham last week.  the course certainly has a great look to it with it's fescue-edged bunkers, rossian contouring, and muni-maintenance, and i remember high school matches there where we'd purposely hit down the baked-out rough to get more distance on the long holes. andy, didn't know that about the front nine, but it sure makes sense. i still think the holes individually are all right, but i always felt it was a little too much dogleg at once.  greens and play are both slow, but everything else is great, especially for the $25 value.  

the orchards is north in macomb county, and it is supposedly one of the furthest distances in which one can see the Renaissance Center downtown. i've never been out to it

i would put shepard's hollow far and away the number the top metro course. the land is about as hilly as the kingsley club, and the slopes were used to gain advantages for daring play. it's fun and hard to believe art hills designed it. very different from his other courses

other than this it's a few good holes tucked into some pretty bad layouts

[Doug Ralston]

Just like up here in Lansing, there isnt much.

Eagle Eye?

[JC Jones]

For whatever reason I have yet to play Eagle Eye.  I dont care for Hawk Hollow its sister course so I dont head out that way.

Im curious to read people's opinions of Eagle Eye as I have heard mixed reviews.

I typically play Timber Ridge, a serviceable Matthews design.  A couple good short par 4s, a couple good long ones.  Its got decent routing and they didnt move much dirt to make it happen.

[Doug Ralston]

http://www.migolfmagazine.com/features/Top50.html

Ranked awfully high here. I have as yet heard only good things.

Doug

[Sean_A]

Detroit is a good place to play affordable golf, but there are very few really good public courses.  I think Shepherds Hollow is the best in the Detroit area (assuming Ann Arbor is too far out at 45 miles), but I haven't seen Westwynd or Greystone.  Orchards in Washington is good, but not terribly special for the money - in other words I would rather play any number of cheaper options.  

Links of Novi has some good stuff and just down the road, Tanglewood also has several good holes.  

Pheasant Run in Canton isn't bad.

For my money I like Braeburn in Plymouth.  Hilltop has some very interesting holes as well.  Both are very affordable.  

Two courses which could shape up to be about the best around if prices were kept low are Rogell and Warren Valley, both Ross courses.  Rogell was just purchased from the city of Detroit by the Greater Grace Temple.  Hopefully some money will be plowed into the course to make it what it could be, but I am not holding my breath.  Warren Valley was originally an 18 Ross course that was split to make two 18s.  It is a pity because its golfing terrain is superb and the newer holes are not nearly on par with the Ross holes.  I don't think there is any hope for this place going back to the original Ross course.

Otherwise, I think a stronger set of publics is located out near Ann Arbor both west and north.  

Dunham Hills
Majestic
Whispering Pines
Faulkwood Shores
Pierce Lake
Leslie Park
Hunters Ridge

Conclusion: Detroit public golf is for locals, there isn't much need to play as a tourist.  

Ciao

[Brian Cenci]

For whatever reason I have yet to play Eagle Eye.  I dont care for Hawk Hollow its sister course so I dont head out that way.

Im curious to read people's opinions of Eagle Eye as I have heard mixed reviews.

I typically play Timber Ridge, a serviceable Matthews design.  A couple good short par 4s, a couple good long ones.  Its got decent routing and they didnt move much dirt to make it happen.

Eagle Eye is top notch.  Eagle Eye doesn't get the respect it deserves.  Best in mid-Michigan in terms of public golf.  I'm not a big fan of Hawk Hollow either.   I am a member at Walnut Hills but I also play Timber Ridge 2/3 times a week and I think it's a good course.  There are some cool par 4's.

-Brian

[Brian Cenci]

I've heard very little discussion from this group regarding public golf around Detroit. Is there little to discuss?

The only intriguing place I've researched is Rackham (bunkering looks decent from the aerial photos).

Can anybody comment on Rackham, or any other decent options?

Thanks

Detroit doesn't have much.  Probably Shephard's Hollow is the best.  Lyon Oaks isn't too bad either and Hunters Ridge is good too.  The Orchards gets a lot of pub, but I'm not huge on that course.  Westwynd is a unique and tough course that is a good play too.  Overall, public golf courses in Detroit is a little lacking.  I'd take Lansing any day.

-Brian

[Sean_A]

I've heard very little discussion from this group regarding public golf around Detroit. Is there little to discuss?

The only intriguing place I've researched is Rackham (bunkering looks decent from the aerial photos).

Can anybody comment on Rackham, or any other decent options?

Thanks

Detroit doesn't have much.  Probably Shephard's Hollow is the best.  Lyon Oaks isn't too bad either and Hunters Ridge is good too.  The Orchards gets a lot of pub, but I'm not huge on that course.  Westwynd is a unique and tough course that is a good play too.  Overall, public golf courses in Detroit is a little lacking.  I'd take Lansing any day.

-Brian

Brian

I think you are the first guy I have heard say good things about Hunters Ridge.  Why do you spose the course is a source of no discussion?  I reckon the same could be said of Faulkwood Shores.  I barely hear it mentioned, but its a lovely track - albeit, it is quite difficult! Even Two Guys Who Golf don't mention FS.  Here is their spiel on Hunters Ridge
http://michigan.twoguyswhogolf.com/reviews/huntersridge.html

Here is a link for loads of little writeups on Michigan golf.
http://michigan.twoguyswhogolf.com/michalpha.html

I also must say that I am stunned at how constant prices are around Detroit.  It doesn't seem as though prices have gone up at all in 5-6, maybe 8-10 years.  How do these joints make any money?

BTW Have you played Calderone Farms in Grass Lake?  This is one course that interests me.

Ciao

[JC Jones]

Detroit doesn't have much.  Probably Shephard's Hollow is the best.  Lyon Oaks isn't too bad either and Hunters Ridge is good too.  The Orchards gets a lot of pub, but I'm not huge on that course.  Westwynd is a unique and tough course that is a good play too.  Overall, public golf courses in Detroit is a little lacking.  I'd take Lansing any day.

-Brian

I had forgotten about Hunter's Ridge.  That is a great course and very much under the radar.  I played it a lot in college but havent gotten there since moving back from the east coast a year ago.  

Re Walnut -  what did Devries do out there?  I grew up caddying at Walnut and played it in HS but havent played the course in close to 10 years.  Great track.

There are some cool little par 4's at TR, especially the "drivable" ones and 18.  My concern is the condition (not of the greens but overall), it seems to me that the supt could do more out there with a $300k+ budget.

[Chris_Blakely]

First Eagle Eye is a very good golf course and worth a look, but it is in East Lansing and this is a thread about Detroit public golf.  If East Lansing is part of Detroit (Solid hour and half from Detroit w/out traffic) then we can talk about courses in Flint, Battle Creek, Marshall, etc.

Hunter's Ridge is a solid Jerry Mathews course and I enjoyed it alot (one of it not my favorite Mathews course).  It is a solid hour or more out of Detroit (Howell, MI).

Brae Burn is a old golden age course by the same architects that did Indianwood Old (Wilfred Reid and John Connelan).  If you are playing this course, it had best be early or late in the season as there is a landfill DIRECTLY across the street.  If playing in the hottest months of summer, I have heard the smell can be quite bad.

Hilltop does have two orginal holes (circa 1919 that appear to be Reid and Connelan) that are very good and  there are two or three Mathews holes that are good to OK, but after playing the orginal holes, I can not help but urn for the original 9 holes over most of the Mathews replacements and new holes.

Calderone Farms is avery good course, with some geometric Raynor-esque greens.  It is IMO one of William Newcomb's best orginal designs.  It was built on a rolling piece of farmland that has some very good holes and one awfull one (adjacent to Deer Museum).  Good pure golf, as of two years ago they did not have a clubhouse.

Westwynd is a great public course.  Terrific rolling terrain, good layout with alot of varriety.  I would not see a reason to seek out Hunter's Ridge, Calderone Farms, or other courses over an hour away if you are lookin for a solid pulic course in close proximety of downtown Detroit.

Others that have not been mentioned that are solid in the Detroit metro area:

Blackheath GC (mini Lakewood Shores Gailes by Kevin Aldridge)
Rouge Park GC (old 1920's Detroit park course - sporty / old)
Glen Oaks GC (old Reid / Connelan former CC now muni)
Moose Ridge GC (solid newer Ray Hearn design).
Pontiac CC (old 1920's Ernest Way design)
Inkster Valley GC (new Harry Bower's design in Rouge River flood plane - some decent holes)

Chris

[JC Jones]

First Eagle Eye is a very good golf course and worth a look, but it is in East Lansing and this is a thread about Detroit public golf.  If East Lansing is part of Detroit (Solid hour and half from Detroit w/out traffic) then we can talk about courses in Flint, Battle Creek, Marshall, etc.

Chris -

I believe we got on the Eagle Eye topic as I complained that Lansing lacked decent public golf.  (Save perhaps Eagle Eye as I have yet to play it).

I would echo your sentiments on Hunter's Ridge and Calderone Farms.

Interesting info on Brae Burn, having played Indianwood Old I am interested in seeking this course out.

Are you MI based?  If so, we could expand this thread to include all lower penn publc golf.

[Sean_A]

First Eagle Eye is a very good golf course and worth a look, but it is in East Lansing and this is a thread about Detroit public golf.  If East Lansing is part of Detroit (Solid hour and half from Detroit w/out traffic) then we can talk about courses in Flint, Battle Creek, Marshall, etc.

Hunter's Ridge is a solid Jerry Mathews course and I enjoyed it alot (one of it not my favorite Mathews course).  It is a solid hour or more out of Detroit (Howell, MI).

Brae Burn is a old golden age course by the same architects that did Indianwood Old (Wilfred Reid and John Connelan).  If you are playing this course, it had best be early or late in the season as there is a landfill DIRECTLY across the street.  If playing in the hottest months of summer, I have heard the smell can be quite bad.

Hilltop does have two orginal holes (circa 1919 that appear to be Reid and Connelan) that are very good and  there are two or three Mathews holes that are good to OK, but after playing the orginal holes, I can not help but urn for the original 9 holes over most of the Mathews replacements and new holes.

Calderone Farms is avery good course, with some geometric Raynor-esque greens.  It is IMO one of William Newcomb's best orginal designs.  It was built on a rolling piece of farmland that has some very good holes and one awfull one (adjacent to Deer Museum).  Good pure golf, as of two years ago they did not have a clubhouse.

Westwynd is a great public course.  Terrific rolling terrain, good layout with alot of varriety.  I would not see a reason to seek out Hunter's Ridge, Calderone Farms, or other courses over an hour away if you are lookin for a solid pulic course in close proximety of downtown Detroit.

Others that have not been mentioned that are solid in the Detroit metro area:

Blackheath GC (mini Lakewood Shores Gailes by Kevin Aldridge)
Rouge Park GC (old 1920's Detroit park course - sporty / old)
Glen Oaks GC (old Reid / Connelan former CC now muni)
Moose Ridge GC (solid newer Ray Hearn design).
Pontiac CC (old 1920's Ernest Way design)
Inkster Valley GC (new Harry Bower's design in Rouge River flood plane - some decent holes)

Chris

Chris

Thanks for the encouragement to see Calderone, maybe one day I'll get out there.  

Its ~80 miles extra round trip to get to Hunters Ridge compared to Westwynd (from Hart Plaza), but HR is about half the price of Westwynd.  I know a lot of folks aren't making $25 an hour so it could well be worth the extra travel for them.  

I have never had a problem with smell at Braeburn, but I expect it has to stink once in while!  JC, its well worth a drive out to see Braeburn.  Its a bit old-fashioned so folks don't talk it up much, but I think it is probably the best deal in the Metro area.  I reckon if they spent some money on the place and made a few changes Braeburn could be a very good course.

Ciao

[Chris_Blakely]

JC -

I am not based in Michigan, but I haved played a lot of Michigan courses.  I think we had a thread on best of Michigan courses recently.  I think it was started in reaction to one of the recent golf magazine or golf digest rankings by state.

Sean -

I believe if you play Westwynd during the week or twilight, it is not a bad deal with a cart.  I just got on Westwynd's website, they have an August special $30.00 7am to 10am.  Otherwise, it is only $40.00 during the week or $35.00 twilight any day.   Factoring extra time spent to get to and fro from Hunters Ridge, I would go with Westwynd.  

I just got on Hunters Ridge website and peak rates to play are $35.00 with a cart during the week.

I made the assumption that the orginal thread was about quality public courses that are in close proximety to Detroit.  Usually this involves someone getting done with work and not have a lot of leg time to get to a course.

Calderone is a must play (for me at least) in Michigan.  I played it on a whim in late fall a couple of years ago and was shocked at the architecture, layout, etc.  At the cost I played to pay the course and factoring in that I was one of a handfull of people on the course, it was one of my favorite golf experiences.

I absolutely loved Brae Burn, I hope to play Indianwood Old someday as I have played all of the public Reid and Connelan courses I could find.  The only hole I do not like at Brae Burn is their signature hole (on the scorecard) I believe it is a very long par 5.  If I remember correctly, that is th only hole that does not have an orginal R & C green.  I even rember playing the hole and noting where I thought the original green use to be before even getting to new green location.

Chris

[Jeff Peterson]

Hilltop does have two orginal holes (circa 1919 that appear to be Reid and Connelan)

Just out of curiosity, which two holes are the originals?  I played Hilltop nearly every day from August through October for four years in High School, and I'm having trouble picking out the two "originals."  

My personal favorite courses in the Detroit area are Lyon Oaks, Timber Ridge, and Shepherd's Hollow.  

Chris, the hole you are recalling at Brae Burn is known as "The Monster," a double-dogleg 600+ yard par five.  It's more than just a "signature hole" -- they use it to try to sell the whole course.  Unfortunately, the "strategy" is merely hitting the ball from Point A to Point B to Point C without hitting it in the water or the woods, so it's kind of boring for a signature hole.  But it is hard.  Also, if you like Brae Burn, another similar old-style course in the area is Salem Hills.

[Chris_Blakely]

Jeff Peterson:

From talking to the people in the pro shop and what i could discern from the course hole 1 for sure and I believe the hole running parallel with it returing in the opposite direction.  I took some pictures of the holes that I liked, I will see if I can dig them up and home and give exact hole numbers.

When was Salem Hills opened?  Do you know the designer?

Thanks,
Chris

[Jeff_Mingay]

I grew up across the river from Detroit, in Windsor, Ontario. Of all the courses mentioned above, I'd play Rogell most often. Good call Sean!

[Sean_A]

JC -

I am not based in Michigan, but I haved played a lot of Michigan courses.  I think we had a thread on best of Michigan courses recently.  I think it was started in reaction to one of the recent golf magazine or golf digest rankings by state.

Sean -

I believe if you play Westwynd during the week or twilight, it is not a bad deal with a cart.  I just got on Westwynd's website, they have an August special $30.00 7am to 10am.  Otherwise, it is only $40.00 during the week or $35.00 twilight any day.   Factoring extra time spent to get to and fro from Hunters Ridge, I would go with Westwynd.  

I just got on Hunters Ridge website and peak rates to play are $35.00 with a cart during the week.

I made the assumption that the orginal thread was about quality public courses that are in close proximety to Detroit.  Usually this involves someone getting done with work and not have a lot of leg time to get to a course.

Calderone is a must play (for me at least) in Michigan.  I played it on a whim in late fall a couple of years ago and was shocked at the architecture, layout, etc.  At the cost I played to pay the course and factoring in that I was one of a handfull of people on the course, it was one of my favorite golf experiences.

I absolutely loved Brae Burn, I hope to play Indianwood Old someday as I have played all of the public Reid and Connelan courses I could find.  The only hole I do not like at Brae Burn is their signature hole (on the scorecard) I believe it is a very long par 5.  If I remember correctly, that is th only hole that does not have an orginal R & C green.  I even rember playing the hole and noting where I thought the original green use to be before even getting to new green location.

Chris

Chris

I am really surprised Westwynd is that cheap!  

Of course, the Detroit area is quite large and one man's neighbourhood course is a quite a trek for someone else.  I am probably biased toward Ann Arbor because I left Detroit (and its burbs - burb life just isn't my bag) many, many moons ago.  I did move back briefly about 16 years ago, but couldn't hack it so out to Ann Arbor I went again!

You are right, the worst hole at Braeburn is the Monster - #13.  Its a poor thing completely out of character with the rest of the course.  If you can't figure out how to post email the pix to me and I will post them.  

Salem Hills is much newer than Braeburn, something like the mid-60s - the eldest Matthews designed the place.  I don't think Salem Hills feels much like Braeburn, but its alright.  It was always marketed to slightly more upscale clientele than Braeburn.  

Jeff, if I hear good things about the long needed rejuvination of Rogell then I will revisit.  The place was bought for 2.1 million in a dodgy neighbourhood with a run down clubhouse so an awful risk is being taken.  It was probably a good move for the city to sell.

Ciao

[Mike Boehm]

Sean -

Westwynd had to end their season a few months early last year after killing all of their greens last year.  They upset a lot of people by charging full rate for a number of weeks before shutting the course down.  This year, they were able to recover 16 of the 18 greens and had two temporary greens in place (holes 5 and 6).  Due to the temp greens, they charged reduced fees for the season and play remained light.  All 18 green are now opened and at $30, the course is easily the best deal in town.

To the initial topic of the thread, I think Shepherd's Hollow is easily the best golf course in town, though play can be painfully slow at times on it.  If you offered me a 4:45 round on the first tee, I'd probably take it - would usually come out ahead.


Mike

[Brian Cenci]

Detroit doesn't have much.  Probably Shephard's Hollow is the best.  Lyon Oaks isn't too bad either and Hunters Ridge is good too.  The Orchards gets a lot of pub, but I'm not huge on that course.  Westwynd is a unique and tough course that is a good play too.  Overall, public golf courses in Detroit is a little lacking.  I'd take Lansing any day.

-Brian

I had forgotten about Hunter's Ridge.  That is a great course and very much under the radar.  I played it a lot in college but havent gotten there since moving back from the east coast a year ago.  

Re Walnut -  what did Devries do out there?  I grew up caddying at Walnut and played it in HS but havent played the course in close to 10 years.  Great track.

There are some cool little par 4's at TR, especially the "drivable" ones and 18.  My concern is the condition (not of the greens but overall), it seems to me that the supt could do more out there with a $300k+ budget.

JC,
    Devries redid the bunkers at Walnut and they are world class.  The only bunkers that he didn't redo were on #2.  It is in normally great shape.
    Timber is also normally in good shape.  The greens out there are usually in great shape but over the last 1 1/2 have been a little lacking.  In years past they would be running at an 11 and in great shape year round.  Now they're 9.5/10 with a few bumps here and there.  Yea, #12 is a great drivable par 4 and #18 is a tough tough closing hole for a par 4 (from the tips) @ 450+ yards over water.

-Brian

[Chris_Blakely]

Sean,

I too was surprised at Westwynds's cost.  I looked it up b/c I did not feel the desparity in cost between HR and Westwynd was as great as you orginally posted.  However, I did not think at times Westwynd could be cheaper than HR.  They are both quality courses and if time is of the essence, than I would play Westwynd.

I completly forgot to look for the pictures last night.  If I can dig them up, I will email them to you.  I am pretty sure that I know how to post pictures, my problem is taking the time to put them up on a site like photbucket.com.  I take a lot of photos of the courses that I play, but just keep them for my use.

After Salem Hills was mentioned, I decided to look it up on the web and saw that it was Bruce Mathews.  Once I saw that, I am less motivated to seek it out.  Although, I did play a Bruce Mathews course of the same vintage earlier this year right off of US-23 north of Ann Arbor and liked it alot.  Good use of the natural terrain.

Chris

[Matthew MacKay]

Thanks for all your suggestions guys.

I actually ended up playing Essex GC in Windsor (awesome Donald Ross) and the U of Michigan GC (really good Mackenzie).

The U of M course, with some tree trimming and some bunker work could be absolutely stellar.

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