[Dean Stokes]

Pete,
If you go to the British Isles you'll be driven crazy everyday. The ONLY way to carry your bag is over your shoulder, hand on the bottom of the bag for stability, bag wrapped around your back with other arm slung over the clubheads ( "Robin Hood"),to save rattling.
Intersting to me how many of us feel we are snobs because we like to walk! Surely it's the only way to play golf. Only in the US could you be a snob for wanting to walk Most places in the world you are the snob IF you are the only one wanting to ride a cart - that or you're just plain lazy....

[Melvyn Morrow]

If we are going to be true snobs then lets get it right

a) no carts, buggies - only caddies

b) no bags

There is only one way to carry clubs and they must face the front and carried by a caddy - any other form is just not Golf. As we get older, bags are allowed for us over 50 guys. Rattle your clubs - then The Secretary should escort you off the course. 

Robin Hood indeed - ex-Lord turned to the dark side - should not be allowed on a course.  Those Carts (or war chariots) started this form
of carrying bags.   Want to carry a bag like a quiver, then take up Archery  

Old photo backs up my position with caddies having no bags and club heads to the front - Expect all you Robin Hoods to dress correctly next time - either to the left or right but heads always facing the front.
All Club Secretaries have been advised - word is spreading around the world as fast as my arrows can fly - so take note - you have all been warned - innocent bunkers could be a quicksand trap waiting for those rattling bag carriers.

There is only so much a golf snob can take!   

[Kyle Harris]

O.T.- This leads me to another thought, I firmly believe golf would be a better game if all new players were mandated to caddie before becoming a player.  In many ways I believe golf has tripped over its own popularity.  I think there is a strong correlation between golf's lost tradition and the declining caddie ranks.

I think there's a strong correlation between declining caddie ranks and the fact that very few caddies provide $50+ worth of added value per round to playing the game.

[Matthew Mollica]

I don't mind (in fact I love) getting about and playing new courses, but I'd rather drave 45 minutes plus to be a member at a good Club (and play less frequently), rather than enjoy convenience of course & Club of lesser quality much closer to home.

MM

[Sean_A]

I don't mind (in fact I love) getting about and playing new courses, but I'd rather drave 45 minutes plus to be a member at a good Club (and play less frequently), rather than enjoy convenience of course & Club of lesser quality much closer to home.

MM

Matthew

I have just made such a move as you describe this year.  I freely admit to being a snob where conditions of a course are concerned.  I think of golf as an all year game and so I want the conditions to playable all year.  There isn't much point in being a member of a club that is mucky and uses temp tees/greens in winter months.  I have completely lost interest in that sort of golf. 

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Matthew - I totally agree my club is 75 minutes by car and 90 minutes by train and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Sean - What's a temp tee?? I agree with you but then only the links or heath in the UK can really guarantee dry conditions year round.

My snobbery means the club should allow dogs preferably labs, no 3 or 4 balls, the puddings at lunch should go straight on the belly, letters to/from the Palace for club dinners and proper dress required.

[Pete Garvey]

O.T.- This leads me to another thought, I firmly believe golf would be a better game if all new players were mandated to caddie before becoming a player.  In many ways I believe golf has tripped over its own popularity.  I think there is a strong correlation between golf's lost tradition and the declining caddie ranks.

I think there's a strong correlation between declining caddie ranks and the fact that very few caddies provide $50+ worth of added value per round to playing the game.

Kyle:

You've missed the point.  The correlation between caddie ranks shrinking and their price is not what I mean.  It's the correlation of shrinking caddie yards and the ignorance displayed by many on the the golf course today.  Everything I learned about caring for the course came from caddying.  The point I make about golf falling victim to its own popularity plays itself out everyday in unrepaired ball marks, divots left to rot and bunkers not raked.  I've never met a golfer that cut his/her teeth by caddying that didn't leave the course better after 18 holes than when started.

[Dean Stokes]

Pete,
I fully agree with your caddy ideas. Having caddied at several private clubs I could not agree with you more.  The characters that sit day after day in the 'shack' tend to have a great deal of respect for both the game, it's rules and the courses they work at - a trait that many of the guys and gals having their bags carried could do with!
My golf snobbery would lead me to suggest that before clubs accept your money, every golfers knowledge of rules and etiquette should be checked/assessed/taught - for the enjoyment of everyone within drivers reach of them.

[Jeff Shelman]

I'm a snob in these ways:

-- If I'm going to play a bad course, it's because the company is going to be great.

-- I like to walk and loathe the mandatory cart/cart path only places.

-- If you're going to charge me triple-digits in green fees, you're course better be really, really special.

-- I don't use bag drops.

-- And I'm a bit of a ball snob.

[Michael Powers]

1.  People who change their shoes in the parking lot.
2.  Bag drop dodgers.
3.  People who try to smuggle their own beer onto the course.
4.  The glass encased hot dog turning machines.

[Wayne_Freedman]

I have become a snob about my clubs.
Aside from a putter (perfect by accident), and fairway metals (continuously changing),
every club in my bag has been fitted, spined, aligned, oscillated, tweaked, and checked.
They feel really good. It's like tasting chocolate for the first time. You won't miss it until
you try it.

The guy who made my clubs gave me 20 yards in the air with a driver, and 10 per iron.

But after all that mony, my handicap remains about the same. Then again, I'm now 54 instead of 44.

[Sean_A]

Pete, you mean carrying "Robin Hood"?

You gotta be kidding.  There is a whole generation of players -- almost exclusively very good players that picked it up playing junior golf and are approaching middle age  now -- that grew up carrying their vinyl Jones bags Robin Hood-style.

It's the only way to carry!  (PS - as a general rule, watch out for money games with guys who carry Robin Hood...even if it's just from the parking lot to the golf cart...it's usually a telltale that they can play a little...)

I agree with you about the clanking part, but that can be fixed by being considerate and slinging an arm back and over the clubheads.

But as for snobbery, if anything, I'm a snob toward a guy who carries Robin Hood, rather than vice-versa.

Shivas

You have some of the strangest ideas connected with golf. 

I never could figure out why guys carried their clubs backwards - it must have been a teenage cool thing.   My father always taught me to keep my tools close by.  There is an added extra motion involved in carrying the bag backwards when you want to set the bag down and you can't pick up the bag and load it while walking.  In short, for a guy doing a job, its a dopey method of working.  Watch proper caddies who make a decent living from it - how many carry backwards?  Robin Hood indeed!   

BTW You came up on the course on Saturday.  I needed to use an extra few seconds to place for my cheater line and said as much.  There was at least one smile.

Ciao

[M. Shea Sweeney]

1.  People who change their shoes in the parking lot.
2.  Bag drop dodgers.
3.  People who try to smuggle their own beer onto the course.
4.  The glass encased hot dog turning machines.

Michael-

For some reason I don't think you and I would be playing much golf  3/4 are favorites of mine.

[Michael Powers]

5.  Those stupid neoprene iron head covers, which M. Shea probably just bought to keep the nicks off his blades while he changes his shoes in the parking lot, loads his bag full of bud, and heads for the clubhouse, err, I mean shack, to load up on rotiserie weeners.  Just do me a favor and don't hussle up to dodge the bag attendant or he'll jack your beers next time you come out.

[Doug Ralston]

1. People who spend time worrying about how other players conduct their round.

2. People who think a mid-range public should have great conditions year round, like a high end course.

3. Most especially speed demons. You know the type; men who think everyone should play on the dead run so THEY won't be held up. I personally always [unless instructed by the course cops] let someone play through by request. I NEVER excuse someone hitting into my group. I NEVER excuse someone complaining out loud to 'no one in particular' that we are slow. If I am going to enjoy golf experience, it is going to take me at least 3.5hrs. Ask, and you pass. Be an ass, and wait!

Note: Played recently at Tot Hill Farm, and it was very wet, cartpath only, and backed way up. Round was nearly 6(!) hrs. Incredibly, I found that I still enjoyed the round. The next day play was much faster at Tobacco Road, because we were off paths. Still fun. Relax. This isn't golf, it's a golfing experience. Consider how much more time out there you are getting for the same money!

Doug

[Jeff Goldman]

Tee times.  Last year, with one of our courses closed in July for work, we instituted tee times on the other.  Everyone thought it worked out fine, and most, including me, couldn't wait for it to be over.  Yyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaccccccccccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhh.   

[jeffwarne]

1.  People who change their shoes in the parking lot.
2.  Bag drop dodgers.
3.  People who try to smuggle their own beer onto the course.
4.  The glass encased hot dog turning machines.

Michael-

For some reason I don't think you and I would be playing much golf  3/4 are favorites of mine.

Michael Powers,
If people are consistently trying to "dodge the bag  drop and attendant" ,how important exactly is the service that they are supposedly providing?
However, not needing the frivolity of  the bagdrop or locker room doesn't mean you stiff the staff.
I'm kind've partial to rotisserie weiners and always buy my Buds (and Mr. Sweeney's) from the establishment that we are playing at.
I'd prefer to change my shoes in the lot but will honor a club's policy if they discourage or prohibit such practice. (sadly my beloved Palmetto just sent a letter out to that effect-the beginning of the end  I fear)

[M. Shea Sweeney]

5.  Those stupid neoprene iron head covers, which M. Shea probably just bought to keep the nicks off his blades while he changes his shoes in the parking lot, loads his bag full of bud, and heads for the clubhouse, err, I mean shack, to load up on rotiserie weeners.  Just do me a favor and don't hussle up to dodge the bag attendant or he'll jack your beers next time you come out.

Michael-

 

[John_Cullum]

How can anybody object to the rotisserie dog??

Hamilton B Hearst eats rotisserie dogs. Tom Paul lives on rotisserie dogs, I think Tom has a glass hot dog oven in his kitchen.

I am sorry Michael, but you really need to find some other activity. I am banishing you from the game of golf

[Chris Cupit]

I'm a definite snob about my golf game although I'm the opposite as someone in the golf business.

Still, I:

1.  Change balls at least every 6th hole during a regular round and every third if it's a competition.

2.  I will never say "pin", "trap" or "you da man".

3.  If the course is in poor condition and I am playing for "fun", I'll go practice instead.  And, I completely understand that no course can be in great shape 24/7.  Also, having played competitvely for a long time in often less than great conditions, I only play now when its between 60 and 85 degrees!  Rain doesn't bother me--only cold.

4.  I NEVER play "winter rules" unless it's a tournament and "lift, clean and cheat" is a condition of competition.   I think people that don't play the ball down are cheaters and must molest collies or small barnyard animals in their spare time

5.   I have no sympathy for truly terrible golfers.  How someone can spend hours and hours at their hobby and not be the slightest bit proficient is beyond me.  I'm talking about a normal, healthy, male between the ages of 25 and 60 who plays 25 rounds or more a year.  If he can't break 100 he should really consider another game or at least play at night where he doesn't have to be seen.

6.  But, believe it or not, I have no patience for those who will not play with women or kids.  I benefited greatly because I was taught how to behave around adults and thus, I was often allowed to play with them.  I learned a great game the right way.  We have an obligation to support junior golf either through volunteering for kids events, playing with kids or giving cash to kids golf groups.  Also, if our game is to grow and thrive we have to be more accomodating to women.  Give me a group of beginner women and kids over a shitty playing group of 50 year old men any day!

7.  I too love the rotisserie dog.  At my uncle's course in Texas, they still hand make the ham and cheese sandwiches every morning at 5:30 AM (white bread, crusts removed!) and sell them for $3.00 in the golf shop every day!  I have very simple tastes in food. 

[Bob_Huntley]

I'm a definite snob about my golf game although I'm the opposite as someone in the golf business.



5.   I have no sympathy for truly terrible golfers.  How someone can spend hours and hours at their hobby and not be the slightest bit proficient is beyond me.  I'm talking about a normal, healthy, male between the ages of 25 and 60 who plays 25 rounds or more a year.  If he can't break 100 he should really consider another game or at least play at night where he doesn't have to be seen.

Chris,

I know that you are a good golfer, yet I think you have much to learn. Do you realize that some old fogie that you see out there hacking around was, at one time, a strapping young stud that could really play. His pain at not breaking a hundred is very real indeed, as I know. Before you were born, I was known as long hitting Bob Huntley, nowadays I cannot break an egg but my ego will not admit it.  However, every round allows me one shot that gives me great pleasure and sometimes I think I have rediscovered the secret... do not deprive me of that small triumph.

Bob

[Art Roselle]

I have a contradictory relationship with the rules.  I think people should know the rules and yet I could care less if they play by them (if it is not a competition).  In fact, there are few things more painful to me than the guy who is just playing "for fun" and will not break 100 anyway, and yet has to walk back to the tee when he can't find his Pro-V1 or belabors the exact drop point for his waterlogged ball.  Just drop one somewhere and hit it!  Nobody cares what you shoot and speed is more important than rigid rule-following at that point (to me and the poor slobs behind you).  I am fine with someone who chooses to play by the rules, but it should not hold up the game unnecessarily, unless you are in a competition.  Most people who violate this do not know the rules well anyway, and so they mess it up and take forever (they don't hit provisionals, don't know how or where to drop, etc.)  Watching someone take 5 minutes to carefully identify an incorrect drop point, precisely measure out three club-lengths and finally drop a ball over his shoulder to put it in play, is beyond painful (although occasionally amusing).

At the same time, I am annoyed by guys that play loose with the rules and then boast about their score.  I am fine with people playing their own version of lateral drops and winter rules and as many gimmes as they want, but please don't finish the round and tell me how it is your "7th round in a row under 80" or whatever.  My dream partner is a guy who can hit the ball ok, but when he can't find his ball, he just tosses one out and hits it (without worrying if he has really used his complete 5 minutes).  He also is willing to take a gimme when offered and will pick up if things get really ugly.  When the round is over and his card says 85, if someone asks him what he shot, he says, "Oh, I don't know.  We were just playing for fun.  If I had played by the strict rules, it would have been 90 or so.  Pretty day out there though."  I love that guy (and, in fact, most players I run across are like that, which is nice)

Likewise, I don't want to be told how to play or what the rules are by someone who is not in a match against me.  If I choose to pick up after two hacks in a bunker or scoop a longish gimme, then that is my business.  I am not playing against you and I am probably not even keeping score.  I am just trying to have fun and keep the game moving (for you or the group behind).  Mind your own business.

I also do not like guys who create a competition where I didn't want one.  Usually this is done ex post facto.  I am paired with a complete stranger and after a seemingly pleasant few holes, he will announce "I think I am two up on you so far."  Usually that is the same guy who will point out my various rule infractions, since they are messing with his imaginary competition.  My new response to that is "Yep, but I really sort of like these right-handed clubs my brother lent me.  Kinda different though."

Maybe that is not really snobbery, but more just pet peeves.  Most of it relates to being paired with strangers.  With friends it is easier to nip that stuff early (or just avoid those players).

Other annoyances

-people who express opinions as facts "You know this course is actually better than Augusta National, just not as well known."

-people who confidently express incorrect facts as facts "I like Pinehurst, but I really think Shinnecock is Donald Ross's best course."

-decent players who totally underestimate the gap between themselves and great players "I can't hit it quite far enough to compete with those guys on Tour, but I can chip and putt as well as any of them." (really? ya think?)

-guys who take themselves and their golf games too seriously

-guys who think their course is the best in the world because the greens are fast

-guys who complain about kids or women on the course.  If they are slow, then you can complain, but don't just complain before you know anything.  You are no speedster yourself and that kid can probably beat your ass.

- guys who complain and criticize a lot of things, while playing golf.  It is supposed to be fun.  Don't drag me into your manufactured misery.   

-guys who put a lot of caveats around their disappointing score. "I shot 82 with 3 three putts, so I should been in the 70s."  Yeah, well you also chipped in twice and made two 40 footers.  I thought it "should have been" 88.
 

[Chris Cupit]

Bob,

I hear you and I was trying to be very specific about the duffer I have no patience for.  I think a golfer 61 and older still has a lot of golf in front of them but once they turn 61 I'd give them a "pass" as to the fact that they just can't that well any more.  Given how healthy many are at 61, I think that is generous. 

I'm not talking about the older guy who through age and /or infirmity can no longer play well.  I am assuming few if any physical limitations for my mythical hacker. 

I have  significant number of seniors in their 70's 80's and even two in their 90's who I hope to be able to emulate one day!  I hope I am still moving around and upright much less enjoying golf at that time in my life.  Again, it's the young, healthy incompetents I have no patience with

I truly believe I could spend 6 months with an absolute hacker and turn him into a player that could consistently break 100 on a course of average difficulty.  I'll make this offer--give me a guy between 25 and 60 with no physical issues who sucks (can't break 100).  I'll spend an hour a week with him for six months and if he can't break 100 in three attempts, I'll give him a free membership!

[Melvyn Morrow]

Art

I HAVE A CONTRADICTORY RELATIONSHIP WITH THE RULES

Surely there can only be one option if you want to play golf - you play by the rules.

Pleasure, fun or in a competition, to do anything else would, in my opinion be letting myself down, showing that I am willing to - lets call it compromise myself. How can you genuinely know the state of your game? To say I achieved 80 when I know that it was perhaps closer to 86, why bother keeping a score, I am deluding myself and worst still actually cheating. I have disappointingly come across many who find it difficult to add 1 + 1, but appear to be a mathematical genius when dealing with subtractions.

If we are going to question things , then perhaps we should question the right of these people to be allowed on a course rather than worry about a couple of 70 year olds playing the game they loved for over 50 years. One day, with luck we will all be that old - it won't be a question of getting the ball out of a bunker - more interestingly can we get ourselves out afterwards.

What one does behind closed doors is their business. The problem actually starts once you are on the course – should we accept this type of behaviour on a course?

My understanding is that once you go on a golf course you play golf – nothing more nothing less, otherwise you compromise your own standards.

Just a thought!

[Brent Boardman]

I understand what Melvyn is alluding to, but couldn't agree more with Art.  I found myself nodding and sometimes laughing while reading his post - it's quite refreshing, really.  I don't get the opportunity to play golf nearly as much as I would like to, but my thoughts on the day-to-day are very much in line with his. 

I'm actually a bit surprised at some of the posts here.  They're what makes golf such a snob good to the eyes of the outsider.  Without a doubt, golf has a great history, but (IMO) many perspectives/opinions need to be much more progressive.

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