Geoff Shakelford on Southern Hills

[Eric_Terhorst]

Looking at the pics on Geoff Shakelford's blog
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/

one of which is posted below,

and reading his fine Golf World article
http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2007/08/gw070803shackelford

that includes the quote

"The crisp cut also has been brought to the approaches, where walk-mowers create tight turf entryways that lend a Royal Melbourne or Augusta National-before-the-second-cut-look. For good measure, newly added tight-grass chipping areas will highlight steep side slopes on the second, sixth, seventh, 11th, 12th and 17th greens. By no longer enclosing the putting surfaces in rough, players will be forced to rethink their way from tee to green."

Do we dare hope that Southern Hillzation will be added to Oakmontation as welcome developments (not to be taken too far, of course) in American golf?

12th green

[Mike_Cirba]

Boy, that looks tremendous.

Did Keith Foster have anything to do with the new look and maintenance practices?

In any case, I can't believe that I'm suddenly excited to watch.

[John Kavanaugh]

Boy, that looks tremendous.

Did Keith Foster have anything to do with the new look and maintenance practices?

In any case, I can't believe that I'm suddenly excited to watch.

My sarcasmdar is pegged off the charts.

[Mike_Cirba]

Boy, that looks tremendous.

Did Keith Foster have anything to do with the new look and maintenance practices?

In any case, I can't believe that I'm suddenly excited to watch.

My sarcasmdar is pegged off the charts.

John,

No, actually, your newfound extra-sensory-perception...in this case for detecting sarcasm, is off the charts due to my latest response to your "Oakmontation" thread posted about 87 seconds ago.

In this one I'm very, very sincere.

I think the pics look tremendous.   The short haircut applied to Southern Hills seems to make previously unnoticeable landforms and slopes jump out and dance.

I think it's going to be a lot of fun to watch the ball actually roll instead of getting hung up in wiry Bermuda rough.

[JR Potts]

No, the great Kerry Haig will take credit for the set-up.

[John Kavanaugh]

I just saw the fans...puke.

[Mike_Cirba]

I just saw the fans...puke.

Good point, John.

You know...anytime I see a fan I have to wonder if something was wrong with the greensite selection.

However, why do I think that the 12th at ANGC has one blowing every week but The Masters?

[John Kavanaugh]

I have talked to many people who have played ANGC and to a man they have promised me that fans do not blow or can be seen during member play.  I would not doubt that fans may blow when the course is closed to play...which is fine by me.

[Mike_Cirba]

No, the great Kerry Haig will take credit for the set-up.

Then good on Kerry, and good on the PGA for letting Southern Hills be Southern Hills.

[John Kavanaugh]

I had heard all these years that the PGA was nice because it wasn't the US Open...now that they make it the Master's Cirba is suddenly all ga-ga over the deal.  I don't get it.

[Mike_Cirba]

I have talked to many people who have played ANGC and to a man they have promised me that fans do not blow or can be seen during member play.  I would not doubt that fans may blow when the course is closed to play...which is fine by me.

John,

That's probably only possible because the sub-thermal cooling system devised by either The Penguin or Dick Cheyney...I can't recall right now...keeps the green at a cool 43 degree Fahrenheit the rest of the time.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,

Like most ignorant supers you need to read the USGA green section report on fans and their application.  The point is to control desease by the removal of moisture not the reduction in temperature.  When is the last time you saw a woman cure a yeast infection with an ice pack?

[Mike_Cirba]

I had heard all these years that the PGA was nice because it wasn't the US Open...now that they make it the Master's Cirba is suddenly all ga-ga over the deal.  I don't get it.

John,

Let's try this.

Ball hitting ground and stopping dead next to green in high grass.   Bad.

Ball hitting ground and permitting gravity to allow it to roll along ground contours for better or worse.   Good.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike,

Like most ignorant supers you need to read the USGA green section report on fans and their application.  The point is to control desease by the removal of moisture not the reduction in temperature.  When is the last time you saw a woman cure a yeast infection with an ice pack?

John,

Dick Cheyney's diabolical plan simply freezes the microbes (they freeze in temps above water) where they lay, and effectively kills their mood for instigating regenerational activities, whether casual or for procreation.  

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm with ya Cirb.  I love the Masters.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm with ya Cirb.  I love the Masters.

I'm with you too, John.   So do I.

Let's just kill some trees out there and it will be as good as ever.  

The one's on 11 & 15 and 17 need to die simply because they fly in the face of The Masters credo that beauty is as important to the re-awakening world in April as anything else.  

Them trees are ugly as sin.

[John Kavanaugh]

A tree will make this championship memorable.

[Mike_Cirba]

A tree will make this championship memorable.

John,

Fair enuff.  

There's nothing wrong with strategic trees that one has to deal with.

That's different from purely penal trees that no one can deal with.

[RJ_Daley]

Not trying to be sarcastic, but those bunkers look R.B. Harris inspired.  Trying to understand what Maxwell intended by reviewing some of Chris Clouser's book on Maxwell, "The Midwest Associate", it doesn't seem like present day modern open faced look with razor sharpe edging was what Maxwell had in mind if you look at Maxwell's drawings of holes.

Keeping in mind that several actual b&w photos in Clouser's book are actually modern day photos taken by many of our own GCA.com posters, not vintage period looks at the bunker examples.

[Mike_Cirba]

Dick,

Agreed that the bunkers at SH are anything but artistic, and the only comparison with Royal Melbourne is the clean edging.

On the other hand, it does seem that John K. has a point that they look more like ANGC all the time....think the 2nd and 7th holes.

I'm simply applauding the fact that the setup seems to encourage allowing the ball to roll.   That seems to me quite a departure from the normal PGA setup I can remember going back to Shoal Creek where tough, thick, Bermuda made for a very unidimensional watching experience, as well as a seemingly limited playability one.

John's also right about the need for big cooling fans being cringeworthy.   I suspect the following architect would have found better, if slightly more subterraean greensites.
 

[John Kavanaugh]

I seriously doubt that the use of fans is because of green site selection and more a response of a super scared for his job and looking for an above ground insurance policy.

[Mike_Cirba]

I seriously doubt that the use of fans is because of green site selection and more a response of a super scared for his job and looking for an above ground insurance policy.

Then why do you cringe when you see them?

Oh wait...I believe the term you used was "puke".

[Joe Hancock]

What is the possibility that the greens at SH were originally bermudagrass?

Bentgrass in a non-bentgrass climate needs some help.....especially at "Championship" maintenance levels.

Joe

[RJ_Daley]

Joe, yes JK has a good point to say the holes look ANGC like.  (there, I said it   )

But, how did the ANGC bunkers and "look" evolve and seemingly to the same look that SH has been displaying?  It wasn't the original archies in either case that first designed the wide perfect oval bunkers.  Wasn't it really the never ending drive towards crisp line perfection?  R.B. Harris has always been in my mind the early proponent of those moon faced, wide open oval to circle sort of sand scoops.

I do think Mike is right about less trees, more golf.  

And the shaved surrounds look like they might be interesting.  But, I go back to what the heat will require in the way of water during day syringing and overnights.  Will they do that watering as per conventional turf wisdom, or will they let them get near death during the week and possibly incurr the wrath of the members?  I am assuming the measures to get the course looking this green and perfect to-date was to baby the turf for months.  Thus, it would seem to me that it would be the antithesis of the Hancock harden them off by tough love or the Scott Anderson approach to cultivating a strong cultivar of drought, heat resistant variety that would endure and bounce back.  Would that be nearly correct thinking, Joe?

[Jay Flemma]

Dick,

Agreed that the bunkers at SH are anything but artistic, and the only comparison with Royal Melbourne is the clean edging.

On the other hand, it does seem that John K. has a point that they look more like ANGC all the time....think the 2nd and 7th holes.

I'm simply applauding the fact that the setup seems to encourage allowing the ball to roll.   That seems to me quite a departure from the normal PGA setup I can remember going back to Shoal Creek where tough, thick, Bermuda made for a very unidimensional watching experience, as well as a seemingly limited playability one.

John's also right about the need for big cooling fans being cringeworthy.   I suspect the following architect would have found better, if slightly more subterraean greensites.
 

Hey!  Don't make fun of Helen Thomas like that!  She's the great dane of the DC press corps you know.