The Oakmontation of American Golf..

[RSLivingston_III]

Pat,

I don't have a problem with Oakmont and what happened there...what I do have a problem with are courses that cut down trees because some simpleton can't break 90 anymore.  You need pretty severe greens and hazards to survive alone...and in truth most classic courses do have that...but few modern do...

I don't think you understand what happened at Oakmont, it was returned to it's original intent. Most courses that are trying to reduce the number of trees are doing so for the same reason. If you know of a course reducing it's tree numbers to make the course easier, I would like to have some names.
If you have a course designed to be tree'd, it should be maintained with it's trees.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ralph,

I'd agree.

Most courses that are removing trees had the trees added subsequent to opening day, many through misquided green and arbor committees, hence, the courses are being restored to their former state.

I don't know of any courses that are removing trees just for the fun of it.

Jaka B,

Do you know of any courses that are removing trees that were there on opening day ?

[John Kavanaugh]

Jaka B,

Do you know of any courses that are removing trees that were there on opening day ?

Yes, and for good reason Victoria National has removed over 300 eight inch trees that were there on opening day.  More importantly Butler is contemplating removing several trees that were there on opening day.  It is now cart branch on tree removal thanks to the success at Oakmont.

[Mike_Cirba]

John,

I hate to correct your posting, but shouldn't it be "Oakmontization"?

As opposed to the latest fad, "Southern Hillsation".  

I'm not sure why the extra syllable is needed, but I think it's now grammatically correct and sounds a bit more impressive.   Give it a try...doesn't that sound better?

Thanks for looking out for us.  

[JR Potts]

Jaka B,

Do you know of any courses that are removing trees that were there on opening day ?

Yes, and for good reason Victoria National has removed over 300 eight inch trees that were there on opening day.  More importantly Butler is contemplating removing several trees that were there on opening day.  It is now cart branch on tree removal thanks to the success at Oakmont.

John:

Patrick means courses built before 1972....right?

 

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

I hate to correct your posting, but shouldn't it be "Oakmontization"?

As opposed to the latest fad, "Southern Hillsation".  

I'm not sure why the extra syllable is needed, but I think it's now grammatically correct and sounds a bit more impressive.   Give it a try...doesn't that sound better?

Thanks for looking out for us.  

titty tat..I thought you would like cart branch..as opposed to carte blanche

[Mike_Cirba]

John,

Truth be told, I loved "cart branch".

It made me chuckle.   Nice one!

[TEPaul]

It's just typical in golf course architecture, like in anything, to go to one extreme and then the other.

I think Oakmont did well to take out the trees it did but Oakmont used as it's "plan" the way the course was the year Fownes died.

Does every course have that baseline?

Should ever course use Oakmont's baseline?

It's just typical in golf course architecture, line in anything else, to go to one exteme and then the other.  

Every golf course needs to look at itself and decide what's best for it.

[RSLivingston_III]

Jaka B,

Do you know of any courses that are removing trees that were there on opening day ?

Yes, and for good reason Victoria National has removed over 300 eight inch trees that were there on opening day.  More importantly Butler is contemplating removing several trees that were there on opening day.  It is now cart branch on tree removal thanks to the success at Oakmont.

John,
Has either of those courses mentioned Oakmont as an influence in there decision? Eight inch trees (now) sound like they were brush size at opening.

[John Kavanaugh]

Eight inch was just a minimum reference number.  The course is only seven or so years old.  I of course was not part of the discussion cocerning the removal of trees most of which were earmarked by Tom Meeks.

The potential trees at Butler are no less than 30 inch threes...I am talking diameter of course.   I do not know if Oakmont has come up in conversations but Fazio is the consultant.

[Jeff Doerr]

Two thoughts on this thread:

1) Geoff had a good image of the rough being mowed back to bring some of the trees into play. To me Southern Hills works with the trees and the strategy they bring will be great to watch this week.

2) Some places need a few trees to look right/natural. One fault I felt at Chambers Bay was that the overall property felt wrong with the area. Keeping one single tree felt contrived. I'd prefer that they left a group near the lone fir, and also planted a few more clusters in areas out of play. They need to keep the huge open feel, but they also need to tie the property into the surrounding fir covered landscape.

Just mho...

[David Stamm]

David,

You must be one of those guys who thinks imagination trumps skill.  

Frankly John, I think imagination requires skill, skill of a different sort. No less important than the execution of the shot itself.

[BCrosby]

Imagintion always trumps skill if the competitors have largely similar skills.

Like, for example, on the PGA Tour.

Bob

[Adam Clayman]

John, It's nice to know you didn't need to be a shotmaker at Ballyneal.

[John Kavanaugh]

John, It's nice to know you didn't need to be a shotmaker at Ballyneal.

The land at Ballyneal is so interesting that the air doesn't need any help.  Very few sites are so lucky.