Pat Mucci:
2 thoughts:
1) I played Shinnecock from the members' tees the other day - never been that far forward before. On about half the holes, the difference between the "Open markers" and the members' tee boxes is 50-80 YARDS!! Examples include #'s 2,3,4,5,6,9,12,15,16 and (especially)18. Patrick, the different tee markers make for TOTALLY different holes in terms of playability. Anyway, enough said about that.
2) How's this for a thread that we both might agree on?
Which HOLES have stood the test of time without being substantively changed? Great holes then - great holes now. Tested both Jones and Tiger from the same tee boxes. Only modest length added, at most.
I can name a ton of those and, yes, Pine Valley has at least as many as any other course. Here's some off the top of my head (my definition of "great", I admit)
PVGC #'s 5,8,13,15
Merion #'s 2,17,18
Shinnecock #'s 11,14
National #'s 3,4,7
Cypress #'s 16,17 15??
Pebble #'s 8,14,18 (except for stupid trees)
Riviera #10
Creek #6 (maybe the best strategic hole ever)
Augusta #12
TOC #17
Several common characteristics on my list:
- short par 4's (PV, Riv)
- par 5's w/tough 2nd shots (PV, Merion, Pebble)
- precision par 3's (Shinnecock, Cypress)
- longish par 4's where the 2nd shot is everything and the driving distance is limited (PV #13, Pebble #8)
Over dinner and drinks, we could do 50 more.
Mike Hendren:
I can't guess.