A fascinating find: Flynn in Florida

[Kyle Harris]

While Indian Creek gets all the press, I was surprised to discover a well-regarded Flynn course in Lakeland by the name of Cleveland Heights. Originally a private club, the city of Lakeland bought the course and it's now one of the better munis I've played.

From what I can tell, only two Flynn holes were lost when the city added 9 holes in the early 80s (those across Edgewood Road from the clubhouse, the 7th and the 8th). While the new 9 meshes well with the Flynn holes (minus a lengthy walk from the A-3 green to A-4 tee), the designed aren't nearly as sophisticated.

And now, the Flynn Photo Essay:

First hole from clubhouse porch and then from the tee, very typical Flynn "look":



Third Hole from the tee with lone bunker guarding front left of the green:


The appealing third green, I am fond of the bunker placement in relation to the green size and the subtle waves in the green.


After a two hole recess, the Flynn look returns on the 6th hole (old 4th), a short par 5. The fairway is cut around both sides of the greenside bunker with a smaller bunker just barely visible hampering the approach. While the Live Oak is quite old, it does remove the right side of the green from approach considerations.


A great short par 4, the 7th plays to 310 yards and a slight dogleg left. The following pictures show the green site, the wavy green itself and the nature of the "outside-the-dogleg" Flynn strategy looking from the green back down to the fairway. Of the Flynn greens, this has the most movement and diversity in hole locations.




If there is to be a criticism of the routing, it's that both Par 5s play in the same direction and as dogleg rights. However, the 8th plays 80 yards longer than the 5th at 550 yards with a blind tee shot. Coming over the ridge presents this view of the green:


The uphill 188 yard 9th, with one of the most severe greens on the golf course:




Unfortunately, I didn't have time to picture or play the other nines and both still contain much Flynn. I plan on getting back out there sometime in the near future and will post more accordingly.

To those in the Orlando/Tampa area, want to meet up for a game and check it out?

[John_Cullum]

I spoke with the superintendent there a couple of years ago. He told me there was practically nothing left of Flynn's work. Wayne tried to send me a copy of the routing via e mail but I could never get it to open.

I'll be happy to join you for a game though

[Kyle Harris]

John,

Not sure what the super was thinking there, as the greens and routing are very Flynn-like.

I'd like to get Wayne's thoughts, obviously.

They do have the routing posted in the clubhouse and from cross-referencing that with the aerial, all the Flynn holes that remain are at the very least routed the same. The greens have Flynn's subtlety and soft touch in regard to earth moving, for example, the third green is like a picnic blanket laid on the ground.  

Based on the routing in the Clubhouse, the A Nine Flynn are today's 1-3 and 5-9, with the 7th and 8th NLE. The old configuration of the front nine was 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, the two NLE holes which were across the street, 9.

While I don't know the present routings of the B and C Nines, the Flynn holes there are the first and last holes of each nine. I believe the 1st hole of the C Nine was the old 6th/15th hole.

[wsmorrison]

I am a bit surprised, Kyle.   You didn't "discover" Cleveland Heights as a Flynn.  I distinctly remember telling you about it.  When you told me you were going to go over there, I sent you a low res image of Flynn's routing and I believe I also sent you the chapter I wrote on Cleveland Heights.  I know I sent you the Flynn routing cross referenced with the present routing:

Hole 1      Flynn Plan (yds/par)      Today
1      390/4            360/4 (A-1)
2      213/3            202/3 (A-2)
3      362/4            352/4 (A-3)
4      451/5            487/5 (A-6)
5      301/4            314/4 (A-7)
6      534/5            536/2 (A-8)
7      422/4            removed
8      383/4            removed
9      192/3            188/3 (A-9)
10      347/4            335/4 (B-1)
11      255/3            338/4 (B-2)
12      412/4            418/4 (B-7)
13      450/5            464/5 (B-8)
14      380/4            380/4 (B-9)
15      343/4            335/4 (C-1)         
16      405/4            421/4 (C-7)
17      136/3            168/3 (C-8)
18      352/4            340/4 (C-9)

Your memory is worse than Tom Paul's and he's 100 years older than you
 

[wsmorrison]

By the way, an influencial local FL architect would love to see it restored to the original Flynn, well as much as possible given the park that was built on part of the original course.  I think that is admirable of him and demonstrates his wonderful sense of history and community.

[Kyle Harris]

Fine, yes Wayne, you AND Adam Messix told me about it... after I passed it on the road and asked.

 

Thanks for posting the routing again, I deleted the PM in my last PM purge. Don't think you sent me the chapter but if you could email it to me, I'd be most grateful.

How does the present course reflect the designs? All those pictures are from the A nine.

[Craig Disher]

Kyle,
A 1941 aerial of CH (it's a mess, damaged by mold) shows the bunkers to have been very much like Indian Creek's - bold, massive, some as large as the greens. From your photos, many have been lost and the ones you show have shrunk in size by about half.

For example, the left bunker on the 9th stretched over to the small pines and ran the full length of the green. It was as large as the green. There was a smaller bunker on the right. It looks like there was an alternate 9th green on the right which has been lost to the parking lot.

It looks as though Flynn built 9 holes initially and 9 added later. The 7th and 8th holes and the ones farthest to the south have no bunkers at all in contrast to the ones nearest the clubhouse which are well bunkered in the fairways and around the greens. Did you get a chance to look at the present 18th (I assume the one just south of the clubhouse that runs south to north ending near the 1st tee). The present green is in the same place but the original green and surrounding bunkers are quite different.

All this is very interesting - I will probably be near Lakeland before the end of the year and would certainly like to have a look at the course.

[wsmorrison]

As soon as Adam heard from me that there was a Flynn in that neck of the woods, he skedaddled over there to check it out for me.  He was very helpful in my analysis of the course.  

I do know that I sent you Flynn's routing of the course.  Study that and then you'll know how the present course reflects his design.  Knowing that an architect wants to see it restored should tell you that there have been significant changes.  I don't remember off hand what they amount to and won't have time to look into it for some time...busy with work, I'm afraid.  

[Kyle Harris]

Craig,

The bunker you mentioned to the right of 9 is still there, just not visible in that picture, and probably much smaller. There is also a green to the left of the 8th green (old 6th) that is now the chipping green, but is situated such that it could easily have been a part of the hole complete with a bunker. Does the aerial show that as well?

The bunkers have definitely shrank, and the footprints of some of the older ones still remain. I was curious about that, but don't have any photographs to show it. I'd like to get out there some afternoon when nobody is there and have a closer look around.  

Wayne,

I will certainly take a closer look. The greens have definitely shrunk, as most are now just triplex spins on the old green pads. Craig has already mentioned the bunkers and tree removal would definitely be in order. If this place looked anything like Indian Creek, then a lot of trees need to go.

[Craig Disher]

Kyle,
To the left of the 8th green are the remnants of a fruit grove (looks like orange or grapefruit trees) which extended into the area that is now the practice ground. The 1st fairway cuts through the grove.

The 5th (Flynn's, now the 7th?) green was at least half surrounded by a continuous bunker across the front and two other large bunkers to the left front - at least it doesn't appear to be mold. It's dramatically different than the string of bunkers shown in your photo.

[TEPaul]

Kyle:

I'm not exactly saying it isn't but I would love to hear from you why you think that course is fascinating.

It does have all the basic ear-marks of Flynn's style in some of the bunker placements, basic green shape and style, the turning or movement of the holes but it is pretty bland or seriously dumbed down from the look of those photos.

I grew up down there and that kind of course was pretty common back then. I saw a lot of them back in the 1950s seeing as my dad was one of the best tournament amateurs in the state back then.

I'm fascinated by courses like that simply because they connote a real time and place and era to me in golf and architecture (one that I remember so well) but in the broad panoply of architectural excellence they were definitely not at the top of the totem pole, that's for sure.  

This is no knock on Flynn either. Like most architects he probably did what he was asked to do and definitely never thought of himself as a guy who was trying to hit a homerun every time out.

But what I see in those photos is most of the best "principles" of golf architecture are there, even if they are, or appear, exceptionally mild.

[John_Cullum]

I have to agree with Tom Paul. When I saw the photos it looked like about 100 other courses I've seen in the South

[TEPaul]

JohnC:

In the name of historic accuracy you should probably say "the old south".  

As time goes on, John, I find myself so much more interested in not just certain types of architecture but frankly any type of architecture and why it was the way it was at certain times and in certain places.

To me it's not about excellence anymore---it's all about the evolution of it all.  

[Dan Herrmann]

This is the first time I've seen "Flat Flynn"  - a Flynn course on flat terrain.

But he still seems to have some holes that provide an uphill approach to the green complex -something that we see in great abundance on a super course like Rolling Green.

Question - was the uphill/elevated green a common Flynn technique, and, if so, has it stood the test of time?

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

As Craig mentioned, the course seen today in the photos Kyle posted is a far cry from the course Flynn designed and built.  I'll post a routing map shortly...after a bit more studying.

However I agree with you, the photos don't grab you and say this is a heck of a golf course!

Dan,

Ron Forse talked to me about top-dressing Bermuda greens and the effects of the same over time.  On a muni course like Cleveland Heights, perhaps they don't do very much of it but they sure do at Indian Creek.  I'll have to look at the routing map topo lines and the course the way it is today and see how much more perched the greens are today.  In any case, I like that evolutionary result given the advances in golfers and equipment.

[wsmorrison]

Dan,

Have I shown you plans for Flynn's courses in Boca Raton?  That is flat...no more than 10' of elevation change but the designs were fascinating.  Boca Raton South would have been one of the top tier courses in America when it existed, and would easily be a top classic design today.  Incredible use of wind, angles, deception, etc.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Kyle,
I do know one thing about this course, the glass in the clubhouse window that's facing you (when standing in the bunker on #9) is VERY strong!!

[Adam_Messix]

Kyle--

I've been meaning to call you to check up how you're handing the Florida summer.

As far as Cleveland Heights goes, it's a really cool course, particularly the Flynn holes.  The first time I visited there, the pro was insistent on telling me that there was very little of the original course left.  I was surprised to hear that, particularly given that many of the green complexes near the clubhouse were a style that Flynn used.  The other thing to note is how different the Garl holes when compared, as a matter of fact, the greens on the newer holes are distinctly crowned.  Another thing to note, the pro told me on the 7th hole of the A nine that the original green was over to the right and had been taken out (and has since been replaced by a small pond that is out of play.)  Imagine my surprise that Flynn's drawing shows the hole as the slight dog leg left that is there today.

It's a shame that the 7th and 8th holes of the Flynn course that are located across the street are now a park because it looks like they would have been really good uphill and down hill par four holes.  

How about the 9th green of the B Nine, reminds me a lot of #11 at Kittansett but not as severe.  

As I don't know which architect wants to restore Cleveland Heights.  I think that the biggest issue is the condition of the course.  It gets a lot of play and those greens are REALLY grainy.  

Tom Paul--

By Florida standards, Cleveland Heights has a lot of movement to it.  There are actually some uphill and downhill holes.  The 9th Hole of the A Nine is  par three with about a 10 foot rise from tee to green (not much by Philly standards, but mountainous for Florida.)  

[Mike Sweeney]

As time goes on, John, I find myself so much more interested in not just certain types of architecture but frankly any type of architecture and why it was the way it was at certain times and in certain places.

To me it's not about excellence anymore---it's all about the evolution of it all.  

I played Cleveland Heights yesterday with Kyle and a non-GCA friend and saw this old quote from Tom Paul. Cleveland Park was built 1925 and Highland Park (Stiles and Van Kleek) down in Lake Wales was built in 1927:



Cleveland Park is now 27 holes with pool and tennis with a good scattering of Flynn holes and now a vibrant community around it. It is a really nice municipal complex.

Highland Park is now Lekarica and is a shell of the former course but I believe the original routing is there. Some of the original houses and the "Colony House" are still there, but it is scattered with modern Florida bungalows beside them.  There is no real community to speak of.

Mountain Lake built over the years of 1915 - 1920, seems to have gotten in before the real estate bust of that cycle and for the most part has kept and maintained its character.

Thus, Tom Paul, the golf architecture evolution clearly is influenced by the rising and lowering tides of the Florida real estate market.

Fast forward to the current real estate cycle where Bella Collina (40,000 square foot club house and a few homes!), Sugarloaf (temp clubhouse and two occupied houses) and Deltona (temp clubhouse, course re-do in a busy but lower-end community) and it will be interesting to see the evolution of these three courses as a modern day comparison to the older examples.

It is really sad to see the old Highland Park house just sort of sit there and I am guessing it was an albatross for future development. My guess is Bella Collina is in a similar spot with a very good course and a big clubhouse that nobody knows what to do with:

[Kyle Harris]

Not necessarily a shameless plug for my personal webpage, but I felt it compelling enough to bump this old thread of mine from ten years ago to document the renaissance of William Flynn's Cleveland Heights in Lakeland, FL.

https://kylewharris.com/2017/03/12/some-cleveland-heights-photos/

[MCirba]

Frigging fantastic!  Fabulous.

[Terry Lavin]

Frigging fantastic!  Fabulous.

I guess it's not ineffable!   

[Nigel Islam]

I played CH in 2012. What prompted the improvement in conditioning Kyle?

[Kyle Harris]

I played CH in 2012. What prompted the improvement in conditioning Kyle?

Nigel,

A few things seem to have contributed.

1. From 2013-15, one nine was closed a year for re-grassing. Grass lines were expanded but contours maintained.
2. The City of Lakeland has good-to-great city services and condensed the golf operation into the excellent managed Parks Department. The economy of scale and pooling of resources has helped their talented Superintendent do a little more.
3. As a muni pushing upward of 80,000/year, Cleveland Heights overseeds greens and now approaches. This seems to have been a good winter for overseeding as most places that overseed are in the best condition I've seen them. Makes for a rough Spring transition usually, but we shall see.