Separation: Why?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I played an interesting old course that once was an open meadow with holes cut fairly tight because of a lack of property.  Today it was a tree filled mess with a number of bastardized japanese garden effects.  Where did the idea of completely blocking one hole from another originate?  

[Rich Goodale]

Pine valley?

[Tom_Doak]

Rich:

I've often given the credit to Pine Valley myself, because someone wrote breathlessly years ago about not being able to see any hole from any other.  But, I can't imagine it has been that influential on its own, since not many people ever get to see it.

Augusta National has had its towering pines between holes on TV every spring for fifty years.  And, in the UK, once Sunningdale and her neighbors let their open heath grow thick with trees, other clubs were sure to follow.

Still, I believe the influence of planting trees was not all about golf ... it just became popular to "landscape" in the 1950's due to all sorts of factors, including the sudden loss of many American elms.

[wsmorrison]

"Still, I believe the influence of planting trees was not all about golf ... it just became popular to "landscape" in the 1950's due to all sorts of factors, including the sudden loss of many American elms."

And the Department of Agriculture nearly giving away millions of pine trees in the 1950s.  It surely was a response to the loss of Elm trees and possibly to a severe drought in the Southwest, which caused a lot of pine trees to die.  Recently, the current American SW drought and higher temperatures has seen a loss of 45 million pinion pine trees in New Mexico over the last 3 years, far worse than the drought in the 1950s

[Rich Goodale]

Tom

Whoever wrote the description in the 1st edition of the World Atlas of Golf said:

"Each hole is a separate and distinct entity.  No hole parallels another and each is protected by huge tracts of pines, bushes and jungle-like undergrowth."

I can't think of any other great golf course that could have been be so described in 1976, except maybe Pinehurst.  Today we have many such courses, none of which are truly great, but many of which aspire to be great.

Am I alone in thinking that the "Pine Valley Syndrome" (i.e. "Splendid Isolation") is at least as widespread and pernicious as the "Augusta Syndrome" (i.e. Splendid Presentation")?

Rich

[Ken Moum]

Am I alone in thinking that the "Pine Valley Syndrome" (i.e. "Splendid Isolation") is at least as widespread and pernicious as the "Augusta Syndrome" (i.e. Splendid Presentation")?

Rich

When I heard that description applied to Sand Hills several years ago,  I thought is sounded sublime.

Now that I've stood on the 11th tee at TOC at St. Andrews, I no longer think that way.

I love the collegial feel of St. Andrews Links, Brora, Dornoch, et.al.

K

[michael j fay]

Pine Valley was not alone.

The '59 Open at Winged Foot was a tribute to separation and trees.

I think the members of many clubs planted trees to beautify (?) and separate. It was well intentioned, yet short sighted. Unfortunately the trees chosen, mostly pines, are destructive and dirty.

At Wampanoag we have a 120 foot pine on the fourth hole. When it was suggested that the tree be removed some of the members thought that we were butchers, They cried that the tree had been there a hundred years, etc.. I was there in 1964 when the tree (at that time 2 1/2 feet tall) as a 150 marker.

There are parts of the country where tree removal has become de rigeur. There are other parts where the taboo of removing even the most obviously misplaced trees is still in vogue.

[Tony_Muldoon]

It is my understanding that Colt planted the trees at Sunningdale so that look was his conscious choice.

I can think of two reasons

1
To differentiate inland and links golf, Trees are generally not an option hard by the sea.

2
A
He just liked the idea of trees around.

B
He saw the possibilities of separating each hole, so that it became something new to explore.  So instead of a trip out and back we go through an Odyssey and have a whole series of adventures.

[Tony_Muldoon]

The thinking behind option 2A is remarkably similar to the Arts and Grafts influence on gardens.

This started with Morris and the Red House he had built in 1869.


"The house is of enormous international significance in the history of domestic architecture and garden design. The unique building is constructed of warm red brick, under a steep red-tiled roof, with an emphasis on natural materials and a strong Gothic influence.
 
Many of the original paintings and designs created for the interior of Red House by Morris can still be seen. Photo: Barry Waddam   

The garden was designed to 'clothe' the house with a series of sub-divided areas, which still clearly exist today."

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/trlout_gfx_en/TRA24521.html


By the turn of the Century Gertrude Jekyll was working in this style and two great gardens created in the home counties have been the biggest influence on gardening worldwide ever since.

“The Arts and Crafts movement laid the foundations for gardening as we know it. .... Gardening and design celebrities such as William Robinson, Gertrude Jekyll and William Morris expounded the philosophy behind the style. Their rejection of ostentatious display and their insistence upon simplicity, craftsmanship, tradition and a reverence for nature in all its forms established a new agenda in garden-making which still resonates today.”

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arts-Crafts-Gardens-Wendy-Hitchmough/dp/1851774483

"The garden itself is designed as a series of "rooms", each with a different character of colour and/or theme, the walls being high clipped hedges and many pink brick walls.   " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sissinghurst_Castle

"The garden takes the form of a series of "rooms" of various characters created by the creative use of hedges and walls. These rooms are linked by vistas and furnished with topiaries. "  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidcote_Manor_Garden


Please read Tommy’s plea on the other thread before responding with anything less than a polite well argued riposte.

[Rich Goodale]

The thinking behind option 2A is remarkably similar to the Arts and Grafts influence on gardens.

This started with Morris and the Red House he had built in 1869.


"The house is of enormous international significance in the history of domestic architecture and garden design. The unique building is constructed of warm red brick, under a steep red-tiled roof, with an emphasis on natural materials and a strong Gothic influence.
 
Many of the original paintings and designs created for the interior of Red House by Morris can still be seen. Photo: Barry Waddam   

The garden was designed to 'clothe' the house with a series of sub-divided areas, which still clearly exist today."

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/trlout_gfx_en/TRA24521.html


By the turn of the Century Gertrude Jekyll was working in this style and two great gardens created in the home counties have been the biggest influence on gardening worldwide ever since.

“The Arts and Crafts movement laid the foundations for gardening as we know it. .... Gardening and design celebrities such as William Robinson, Gertrude Jekyll and William Morris expounded the philosophy behind the style. Their rejection of ostentatious display and their insistence upon simplicity, craftsmanship, tradition and a reverence for nature in all its forms established a new agenda in garden-making which still resonates today.”

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arts-Crafts-Gardens-Wendy-Hitchmough/dp/1851774483

"The garden itself is designed as a series of "rooms", each with a different character of colour and/or theme, the walls being high clipped hedges and many pink brick walls.   " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sissinghurst_Castle

"The garden takes the form of a series of "rooms" of various characters created by the creative use of hedges and walls. These rooms are linked by vistas and furnished with topiaries. "  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidcote_Manor_Garden


Please read Tommy’s plea on the other thread before responding with anything less than a polite well argued riposte.

I like the reference to "Arts and Grafts."  A Freudian tyop, perhaps?

[Mark_Fine]

Just quickly, a big part of the reason was irrigation!  When irrigation systems were introduced to golf courses, they would often just run one line down the center of the fairway.  The water would reach only so far on both sides.  Where the water reached, the grass stayed green.  Where it didn't, the grass often would turn brown.  Members/golfers got tired of the brownish look and decided to plant trees in that area and hense the separating of holes with trees and narrowing of courses commensed.  

Beautification of America (plant a tree for the day programs) were all a big part of it.  At one course we are restoring, members back in the 50's and 60's on one special day each year were allowed to plant a tree almost anywhere they wanted on the golf course (except on the greens)    Amazing but true.  

I do believe Pine Valley had an influence and still does till this day though now you can see some other holes with thier recent tree clearing efforts.  One thing many people fail to realize at Pine Valley it that the course is routed on nearly 300 acres of land which in itself provides separation just due to the space.  Most courses don't have that luxury and they resort to trees to get that separation but Pine Valley is one of the courses that influences them.  

[KBanks]

Pine Valley is frequently cited as the ultimate example of separation, but was it part of the original architectural philosophy of the course? Crump "abhorred parallelism" and believed a good course should "box the compass", but did he ever write or say anything about isolating the holes from one another?

Ken

[Phil McDade]

Still waiting for Mr. Mucci to weigh in on the contrasting legal systems of the UK and US, particularly when it comes to liability and damage issues.

[Jim_Kennedy]

For someone who knows:
What about Colt's Swinley Forest, it predates Pine Valley by a couple of years, and aren't there others like it that predate a PV?
I've no knowledge of SF other than what's in Ran's review, but the "serenity and ambience" he wrote about seems to be generated, in part, by a distinct separation of holes as shown in the photos.  

[JESII]

Do not many of the links courses of Scotland, Ireland and England provide this form of separation thanks to the dunes? Perhaps the Pine Valley guys liked the isolation feeling they found on one of those courses...


I personally agree with KMOUM  on this...

[Phil McDade]

JES II:

Some do, some don't. Machrihanish, originially an Old Tom Morris design dating back to the 1870s, has a clear sense of separation among its holes, largely due to the dunes that are so much a feature of that course. Peterhead, a little-discussed course here, has a similar separate feel, but for slightly different reasons -- the front nine is routed in a meadow and then on some high links ground, before the back nine sort of plunges into the dunes and runs back to the clubhouse.

But other links courses, at least in Scotland that I've played, are laid out on somewhat featureless (big-scale features, as opposed to small undulations) ground where you can see several holes at once. The ancient Balcomie links at Crail are like this.

[JESII]

Thanks Phil,

That is pretty well what I thought...some do and some don't.

I guess my point is that the idea of isolation probably pre-dates Pine Valley but may have been lower profile. I bet the Crump got the idea from somewhere.

Also,

I agree with Mark Fine that PV would offer the same, or similar, isolation without trees just due to the expanse of land and the direction of the holes.

[Adam Clayman]

 Separation adds to the variety. How it's done is what's important.

When done properly, it allows the golfer to get close to nature (or even a condo).

There are some examples, sans condo, that are so peaceful and so isolated, they are the epitome of golf in a natural setting.

In this day and age, these opportunities are too few and far between, For many.

[JESII]

Adam,

Sounds like you would prefer a perfectly isolated course to a community type course...what is it about the individual hole isolation that you enjoy so much?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Jim
Swinley (1909?) do the trees predate the course? It’s 5 miles from Sunningdale so I’m guessing not but we really need some old aerials.



He had to clear land of trees to create St George’s Hill. (1912)




These pictures of Pine Valley were published in the 1920’s in book Colt edited.

[Rich Goodale]

Adam

I find holes which are isolated creepy, rather than the eiptome of golf.  Tom me it's the differnce between a golf hole as a golf hole and a golf hole as an integral part of a golf course.

You'd hate the 14th tee at Lundin Links from which you can see every tee and every green of the course.  They call the hole "Perfection."

Rich

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

While not that many golfers may have played PV, it's legend spread with every returning guest, and their audiences.

In addition to it's legendary difficulty and unique hazards, the
"not seeing other golfers" facet became desirable because it was part of the "whole package" PV represented to the golfing universe.

Club after club wanted to reproduce the isolation of holes/golfers as evidenced by PV.

At the same time, a period of benign neglect was occuring at PV.  Bunkers, fairways and corridors of play were allowed to be intruded upon by unbridled growth, thus, one of the Icons of American Golf was sending out the wrong message to those who felt that imitating PV couldn't be wrong.

In addition to landscaping, or perhaps as an adjunct to landscaping, the desire to "frame" target areas became prevalent, especially where greens were concerned.

Again, lacking foresight, many clubs planted trees so close to the greens that as the trees matured the roots went into the surrounding bunkers and greens, along with the drip lines, creating problems with playability and agronomy.

Once one local club embarked upon an arbor program, the neighboring clubs jumped in.  So, club after club rushed to line every fairway, frame every tee and green, never contemplating the impact that the mature plantings would have on visuals, agronomy and playability.

Call it the perfect storm, or the need to present something unique, but the forces that impacted clubs at the local level were now into the fad of planting trees, mostly, indescriminately.

Michael Fay,

It was after the 59 Open at WFW that WF went on an arbor kick.  However, I don't think anyone involved with that endeavor contemplated the impact to the playing corridors, that the drip lines, at the maturity of those tree, would have.

And, because growth is subtle, imperceptable, as the membership aged and turned over, the general consensus amongst the evolving membership became, "that those trees had always been intended to be there"

One only has to examine the rosters of the WF's, GCGC's and other clubs of the U.S. to see that very few of today's members were members in 1959, and, if you can find them, you'll be hard pressed to get accurate and complete information regarding what happened because they were usually too young at the time (1959) to be in any position of authority or in a reliable information loop.

I think that's one of the great values of aerial and ground leve photographic presentations and preservations.

They tell an undeniable story, absent the info behind it.

[Adam Clayman]

Sully and Rihc, You assume too much. There's a time and a place for everything (almost). I love intimacy, too. But on the occasion you come to man's end, it should be appreciated. I suppose mostly because I'm such a bear on the future of nature on this planet.

Forced separation through the planting of rows of trees, is a great example of a poor application.

[Greg Murphy]

I have no idea when the idea originated, but I think the desire to block one hole from another is a response to the urge to make a round of golf feel like a quest rather than a battle or social get-together, or as others have alluded, to achieve something sublime rather than collegial.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Sunningdale

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