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Fred C.

What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout?
« on: August 26, 2002, 01:07:38 PM »
Hello!

What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout from a US Open layout?  My question arises from the lingering feeling that the PGA Champ.  suffers from any real unique quality versus that of ANGC, a US Open track, or a links.  Maybe I'm wrong?  What do you think?

Yours,

FJC
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_Conley

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Re: What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2002, 01:27:20 PM »
FWIW, the PGA of America is on a campaign to "upgrade" the venue for their event.  After the discussions here following the Hazeltine rounds, I'll let you decide how successful they've been!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2002, 05:35:46 PM »
John:

There's no doubt that the PGA is trying to "upgrade" the quality of the layouts used in their championships.  Personally, I think it has to do with their use of Valhalla for the 2000 PGA.  Their reputation suffered tremendously when they used a newer, non-historic venue for the very important tournament.  Of course, most any venue would have suffered in comparison to Augusta, Pebble Beach and the Old Course, but using a very young site (and which they owned) caused a considerable amount of bad press.  So I think they are trying to make amends for this slip-up by going to some of the more historic courses such as Oak Hill and Medinah, etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Scott_Burroughs

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Re: What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2002, 08:27:00 PM »
And don't forget that other old, historic course on tap for PGA 2004, Whistling Straits.   ::)

Frankly, I'm rather interested to see how the pros do on that course, especially if the winds are up, and they play it from the tips.  If they don't play it from the tips on most holes, with non-howling winds aloft, then why are they there?

Also, just think how much it'll cost after that event.  It's already $248+caddie tip in summer, non-twilight.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2002, 04:55:44 AM »
Scott:

Good point about Whistling Straights NOT being a classic or historic course.

However, I too am very excited to see the PGA contested there on a non-traditional course.  Will WS prove to be a Kemper Lakes?  Or will it stand the test of time?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Rick_Noyes

Re: What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2002, 05:20:24 AM »
Why not save the historic and more traditional courses for the US Open and let the PGA be used as a venue to test the lastest and greastest in courses.  Time will tell, as it usually does, if the chosen course is up to major "standard".  One thing that makes and would improve the PGA (tournament) would be if they promoted that fact that this is THE tournament for the PGA of America.  Let us know which PGA section would be hosting the event, what does the PGA of America do for the game, etc.  Much like the USGA does during the Open.  How about a joint effort between the PGA and the American Society of Golf Course Architects to vote or decide on the venue?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dave_Miller

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Re: What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2002, 07:28:55 AM »
Not to be a cynic or anything  ;D but it appears that length and the ability to have corporate tents, etc. have a great deal to do with selecting these venues. :)

Cheers,
DAve
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Boreum_Hill

Re: What distinguishes a PGA Champ. layout?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2002, 07:39:11 AM »
Corporate tents are also a major consideration at most big golf event: US Open, TPC, WGC, et al.  That's a huge revenue # (50 tents @ $100K = $5M).  If a venue doesn't have room on or adjacent to the course to support these, they won't even be considered.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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