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Dennis_Harwood

Re:Romero or Van de Velde
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2007, 12:46:05 AM »
I'll chime in-- I don't believe, even in hindsight, Romero made the wrong decision (perhaps a 3 wood rather than a 2 iron--but a lay up would be the wrong decision)--

He had a two stroke lead, but both his contenders were at -7 and still had the shortish par 5 14th to play (almost chich birdies and possible eagles) and he was aware of the hole locations on 15 and 16 which he had just birdied (and remember Padrig did go eagle on 15 and his short birdei  putt on 16 should have dropped)--

So, knowing what he knew, and given the same conditions in the future, he could not afford to lay up if he thought there was any chance of reaching the green from that position--

It seems to me it was a lot longer odds that Padrig would make a double on the last hole and/or Sergio would bogey two of the last three than the odds that he could pull off that shot (which by hitting a three wood from what appeared a tougher lie after the drop he proved he could make)--

I don't think he made the wrong play at all--he just missed the shot he had to make--and, in golf, that sometimes happens.

VdV, on the other hand, was not faced with odds of what others may make--he knew and went brain dead.

William King

Re:Romero or Van de Velde
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2007, 12:52:21 AM »
What is a physical choke?

How in the world is it different from a mental choke?


it's the difference between a couple of loose swings and poor course mgmt.

Glenn Spencer

Re:Romero or Van de Velde
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2007, 12:57:34 AM »
What is a physical choke?

How in the world is it different from a mental choke?


it's the difference between a couple of loose swings and poor course mgmt.

Perfect answer.

Glenn Spencer

Re:Romero or Van de Velde
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2007, 01:01:50 AM »
I have no problem if you look at it like that. If was Romero, I would have been thinking that 9 was golden and 8 was at worst a playoff. 18 might have even affected his thinking on 17. He had to think that 8 was going to be a quality score, right?

Jim Nugent

Re:Romero or Van de Velde
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2007, 04:51:04 AM »
Didn't Romero have 8 iron to the 72nd green, which he pulled/hooked nearly OB?  That was a physical choke, that cost him a spot in the playoff, or maybe even the outright win.  

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Romero or Van de Velde
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2007, 05:47:44 AM »
kalen braley said it all...

garland - i had entirely forgotten that VdV didn't know his score and that he thought he needed 5... doesn't really change my opinion though...


Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Romero or Van de Velde
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2007, 05:56:20 AM »
I have to go with Van de Velde. Firstly he’d started the day well clear, and this lead had been maintained throughout the course of the day. This shows he was in “protect” mode, conserving his lead. Factor in the ridiculous set up of the course in 99 and this should have also made him more cautious.

Van de Velde should have hit enough club to get him over the burn (4 / 5 iron), then hit short of the burn with a 6 / 7 iron, and then hit wedge into the green. Even if he thought he needed bogey to win that’s the play. After getting away with a pushed drive there was absolutely, 100%, no discussion, no other shot to hit than wedge short of the burn to his favourite yardgage, followed by wedge or sand wedge 15 feet left of the pin. I don’t care what his lie was like, I don’t care what he considered the right thing to do. If you have 5 for the championship (as many state he thought he did) then take those 5. He actually had 6, and should have been aware of that. Furthermore, aiming the 2 iron at the stands brought luck and fate into the equation. What if he gets a flyer? What if he hooks it? What if he fans it right of the stands? There is no way that he made the right call. What would Tiger have done in that situation? No way he’s pulling 2 iron, no way Stevie lets him either!

As for Romero, this boy had fired 10 birdies in his round. The course was benign. Players were going low and he needed to post a score. 2 iron probably wasn’t the shot to hit, but he got a ridiculous bounce OB. To then show the guts and character to hit a choked down, cut fairway wood from the same lie to 20 feet was incredible. He recovered instantly and played one of the shots of the championship, followed by nutting a drive down 18. The 8 iron he hit in was a poor shot, but at that point I believe he was 2 behind Harrington who had just eagled the par 5.

As for Harrington, he was the one who actually choked the most on Sunday. He hit a dreadful drive on 18, then absolutely chunked a 5 iron from a perfect lie which was heading OB had he made contact properly. Harrington went down 18 with the lead, unlike Romero, and threw up on himself.

Garcia showed good, sensible course management when playing 18 in regulation. He was confident in his ball striking to hit two long irons, and indeed his tee shot was striped. It didn’t then help having to wait for 5 mins while some volunteer bunker raker fannied about. He was unlucky that his putt didn’t drop, but such is golf.

In order of choking, I’ll go as follows:

Van de Velde
Harrington
Romero
Garcia

And what an enjoyable day of golf it was – golf should be exciting, with birdies, eagles and disasters. One can only hope The Masters Tournament Committee were watching…
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 05:59:04 AM by Tom Birkert »

Evan_Smith

Re:Romero or Van de Velde
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2007, 02:22:32 PM »
Thank you Kalen.  That's the point I was trying to prove.