Extreme bunkers

[BCrosby]

Wayne -

Am I right in seeing cops, Mid-Surrey mounding and other geometric stuff?

Is this the same Barker that did the Capital City course at Brookhaven in Atlanta?

BTW, Capital City voted several months ago to completely redo the Brookhaven course. There will be almost nothing left of the old course that dates to about 1912. Bob Cupp is doing the work.

Bob

[Mark_Fine]

Bob,
Herbert Barker did do Capital City in 1911.  

[BCrosby]

Thanks Mark.

Based on the Springhaven pictures, I would love to see what Barker's original Capital City course looked like.  

I was in touch with several of the board members (I am not a member) at CCC during the decsion making process and the idea of restoring anything was never seriously considered.

Bob  

[Mike Hendren]

Scott,

Thanks for posting this picture of the small greenside bunker right of Tot Hill Farm's 18th green.  



Hopefully you have a photo looking down on it from the green.  It's a real beaut.

I love the Springhaven photograph and the squared steeplechase/hurdle bunkers.  In today's world, two passes with the Sandpro and you're on to the next one.  

Mike

[Matthew Hunt]

A few I've seen in person:

That would be a pure monster to rake.

[Mike Hendren]

That would be a pure monster to rake.

Matthew, you are not the first to fall for this ruse that is perpetrated as a ritual at Sand Hills.  As Dr. Greco will confirm, the golfer you see is actually a small figurine placed in the bunker to make it look much larger than it actually is.  This photo is even more creative in that the perpetrator has photo-shopped in a small stand-bag on the right!

Otherwise, the club would need to retain the services of a retired Japanese rock gardener and build him a nearby pagoda to dwell in.

Mike

[Matthew Hunt]

That would be a pure monster to rake.

Matthew, you are not the first to fall for this ruse that is perpetrated as a ritual at Sand Hills.  As Dr. Greco will confirm, the golfer you see is actually a small figurine placed in the bunker to make it look much larger than it actually is.  This photo is even more creative in that the perpetrator has photo-shopped in a small stand-bag on the right!

Otherwise, the club would need to retain the services of a retired Japanese rock gardener and build him a nearby pagoda to dwell in.

Mike

Is it say, bigger than the driving bunker left of RCD#12

[Matthew Hunt]

Double Post.

[wsmorrison]

Mark,

It wasn't Ida Dixon (who was helped by Horace Rawlins in laying out the original course) and I don't think it was the work of Andy Campbell (Springhaven professional) who did some work in the early 1920s just prior to Flynn's arrival.  Bob Labbance thinks it is the work of HH Barker and I don't know differently.  Who do you think did it?

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
I don't know, but from what I've studied of Barker for our MP work at Arcola (1909 Barker design), I would be surprised if that is his bunker work at Springhaven.  There is not much left of Barker at Arcola and we didn't spend too much time researching him as Arcola had already been almost completely redesigned by RTJones in the 1950's.  The old photos we have of Arcola dating back to the teen's and 20's look nothing like that photo of Springhaven.  I don't profess to be an expert on Barker, but it would also surprise me given Barker's time at Garden City.  What do you think?
Mark

[wsmorrison]

I think I'll go along with Bob Labbance's research.  He spent a lot of time studying Springhaven Club and wrote their club history.  Given that I am not going to research the club nor Barker, I think I'll give Bob the nod.  

Bob cites a contemporary article that discusses the improvements to the course mentioning Barker's involvement and the addition of 50 pits, many guarding the approaches to greens.

Nothing surprises me and I've learned not to make up my mind without digging deep.  In this case, I am not applying myself to the study of the course and highly regard Bob Labbance's skill as a researcher.  Given my level of interest and his abilities, that's good enough for me.  

Bob Crosby,

Pretty cool stuff, huh?  Nothing remains, unfortunately.  Hope all is well and that we get together sometime later this year.

[Mark_Fine]

Wayne,
Bob could very well be right and if we were doing restoration of Barker at Arcola I'd be inclined to delve into this much deeper.  One thought to consider - Barker designed Columbia CC in Maryland in 1910 which was later redesigned in part by Flynn in I believe 1923.  Do you have any early photos of that golf course?  Might be interesting to compare to Springhaven.  

[wsmorrison]

I have a few old photos, some as early as 1914.

[Mark_Fine]

Do any of them look similar to Springhaven?  

[Mike Sweeney]

Mark Fine,

You asked for this in a different thread, but here it is from a friend at Hollywood.
Not sure of the date.


From Ran's 2001 review:

[Marc Haring]

There's a bunker just like this still going strong at Bigbury GC in Devon. I think it was a Harry Vardon quick stake out job but I guess he added a few cop bunkers or whatever was in vogue at the time.

[Mac Plumart]

Bump...

This bunker at the green at 14 at Dismal is off the charts extreme.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 3 at Prairie Club:






Hole 12 at Prairie Club - this one took cahones to build:

[Matthew Essig]

 

"Chambers Basement" or the new bunker on the 18th hole at Chambers Bay.

[Tom_Doak]

That last picture kind of reminds me of a couple of the fairway bunkers Eric Iverson built at Common Ground [although Eric's fit into the ground a bit better].  Is it 320 yards off the tee and left of center?

[Rory Connaughton]

Tom it reminds me of the fairway bunkers on 4 at Portrush

[Joe Stansell]

Tom, I played Common Ground this past summer and I don't remember a bunker like the "Basement" at Chambers Bay. Which hole is that one on?

The one pictured is about 100 yards or so short of the 18th green at Chambers Bay. The 18th is a Par 5 that stretches to around 600 yards from the back tee. If you're in this bunker, you have NO shot at the green. The play is out to the left and then run the next shot onto the green.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, I played Common Ground this past summer and I don't remember a bunker like the "Basement" at Chambers Bay. Which hole is that one on?

The one pictured is about 100 yards or so short of the 18th green at Chambers Bay. The 18th is a Par 5 that stretches to around 600 yards from the back tee. If you're in this bunker, you have NO shot at the green. The play is out to the left and then run the next shot onto the green.

Joe:

Both the 13th and 15th holes at Common Ground have a deep fairway bunker out around 310-320 yards off the tee, left of center, built into a dip in the fairway.  Each of them is about eight feet deep; you can hit the green from the bunker on 13 with a great shot, but I doubt many people can do it from the one on 15.

I didn't remember that the hole at Chambers Bay was so long ... I thought from the photo the bunker looked about the right distance from the green to have a similar purpose.  So, it's really about 500 yards from the tee on a 600 yard hole?  Is there a great advantage to be gained by getting past it?  Otherwise I would think most people would just lay up.

[Mark McKeever]

Racetrack,

I don't know the golf course, but, I like a green surrounded by bunkers, especially daunting bunkers.

IM me the name of the golf course as I'd like to Google Earth it.

Thanks

I believe these are the current 8th and 9th holes.

Mark

[Joe Stansell]

Tom:

I remember those bunkers now. Thankfully, I didn't find them. I liked Common Ground a lot, by the way.

The Basement at Chambers Bay was added this year in anticipation of the 2015 US Open. You're right, most responsible players will lay up short of the Basement on their 2nd shot, unless they're going for the green in two after a long tee shot. Their is another bunker, however, that is about 30 to 50 yards short and right of the Basement, which juts way out into the fairway. It means the player has to choose carefully on the layup. It has diminished the room for error.

I played the 18th in a match last week and played my "layup" past the Basement. I find that I have a lot more luck getting to a pin in the back (where there is a backboard) by running a 60-yard 5-iron pitch shot along the ground. But that's me.