Blind shot about face

[Jerry Kluger]

I recently played Stonehouse which is a Mike Strantz design just outside Williamsburg, Virginia, and it probably has the most blind shots of any course I have ever played.  Nearly every hole has a directional post in the fairway to show you where to hit your tee shot and many of the shots into the par fours and second shots into the par fives are blind.  What I have discovered from a playability standpoint is that I hit the ball better when I can't see the target. It seems that you are much more relaxed and not as target oriented.  From an architecural viewpoint I am still not a big fan of a course with so many blind shots but it sure helps with scoring.  Of course, it does make it more difficult when you miss a shot as you cannot see it land so it is difficult to find a ball on a heavily wooded course like Stonehouse.  Has anyone else noticed this in their play of holes with blind shots as it had never occurred to me until I played a course which has so many blind shots.

[Peter Galea]

I don't mind a few blind tee shots. More than that and it becomes tiresome, especially when you have to walk up the hill to see what's in front of you. It's the same feeling I have walking from the last green backwards to the next tee.
I enjoy blind or partially blind seconds. These are especially exciting if I've gotten a view or a glimpse of the target from a previous hole or the tee.

[Jim_H]

Generally, I dislike blind shots.  But my favorite course anywhere, Royal County Down, has many blind shots.  I seem to play better there--maybe it is the relaxation caused by a blind shot--looking up does no good.  On the other hand, I really dislike the famous blind par 3 at Lahinch.  There seems to me to be something about a par 3 that needs to be seen.

[A_Clay_Man]

JerryK- I can totally relate! My experiences have conclusivly shown that the result is often better when the terget is blind. I first found this to be true playing late in the evening and refusing to give up even though it's become dark. Then when I moved to Nor Cal and the perdominate fog made every shot virtually blind. The best story I've heard when discussing this subject with others was from a caddie at Spy, named Jim Draper. He was playing CPC with his brother in a total pea soup. When they reached the 16th, fuhgehttabout it, they could see nothing. After hitting thier shots and upon approaching the green Jimmy found his ball looking into the cup, but not in.

The best reason for this Phenom, as I see it , is the lack for the need to look up and is why one hits the desired shot. Ergo, good result.

Besides the true definition of a blind should be, where you can't see the ball at your feet. After you hit it there is nothing one can do to effect it, so why look?

[A.G._Crockett]

Tobacco Rd. (also Strantz) has lots of blind shots as well.  I found it to be a lot of fun, but the landing area for the blind shots was always generous and basically level.  That's fair and kind of exciting.
The Duke Univ. course (an RTJ design orginally) before Rees Jones redid it, had a number of blind tee shots, and frequently players hit tee balls that looked perfect, only to find them through the fairway because of a hidden dogleg, etc.  That was most certainly NOT fun.
Also, I think in general, blind shots into greens aren't a good design feature, regardless of par for the hole.

[Evan Fleisher]

Speaking of Tobacco Road, here is one of those blind shots...the approach to the punchbowl green on the Par-5 13th hole is a thrilling one with a very tall flagstick to help gauge the hole's location. BTW...the fairways extends outward from the RIGHT side of this picture.



That is me (all 5'9") holding the flagstick. Luckily, that is my ball just to the left of the flag...unluckily I missed the birdie putt.

[Jerry Kluger]

I think Clay Man has really hit it on the head, when you don't see the target you swing much more freely and relaxed.  I think that is part of the reason why many of us hit it better at the range and it is important to try and concentrate on a target at the range.  It seems to me that whether you like them or not, when you have a blind shot you are much more relaxed and usually more successful in your execution of the shot.  The converse of this is the forced carry tee shot or second shot over water even when hitting a short iron.  This is where exact yardages are so important and to me it is a great feature when yardages are marked to the front, middle and back giving you the confidence to know how far you have to hit the ball to clear the hazard.  What I have found with blind shots into greens which have forced carries is that what you don't see doesn't intimidate you as much though you know it is there.  The mind can be your worst enemy on a course.  The first time I played Pine Valley we stayed over the night before and one of the guys decided to take me for a walk and show me number 5 which has to be one of the most intimidating holes I have seen.  Needless to say this was not good to sleep on and made playing numbers 1 through 4 that much tougher.  I think not being able to see your target makes you more relaxed but closing your eyes is not the solution.

[Rick_Noyes]

Could not disagree more on blind shots.  We try to avoid them at all costs, but will make the exception on the tee shot if thats the only thing that works.  I personally enjoy seeing the ball land on or near my intended target.  On par-5's I don't necessarily mind a blind tee shot.  But for the second shot, I like to see all the way to the green in order to gage where to hit it for the next approach or to see if I can reach it.  On par-3's never.  On approaches to greens never.  I don't enjoy hitting into someone or being hit into.  I also do not enjoy 5 hour plus rounds riding up to see if the way is clear or waiting on someone to do so.

[Jerry Kluger]

Rick: I agree that blind shots can cause dangerous situations and often lead to longer rounds.  The issue I was addressing is whether despite my dislike of blind shots do I make a better swing when I cannot see the target and the answer seems to be yes.  I am not advocating an abundance of blind shots on a particular course but I would like to get the reaction of others of whether they feel that from a scoring point of view you just might do better on a course with many blind shots.

[golfetc]

I would agree that in one case, blind tee shots would make you score better.  Only if you played with someone who had played the course before and told you that you could trust hitting over the directional flag and you would have plenty of room.  Unfortunatley, without that assurance, I was frustrated early when I missed the directional flags by a few yards and lost my ball.  Nothing is worse for scoring than that.  I recently played stonehouse and consider it one step up from putt putt.  I am all for a few, maybe many blind shots, but not on every hole.  I too am not excited about 5-6 hour rounds (The stater at Royal New Kent, another Strantz design, told us the average round was 51/2 hours) or hitting your tee shot 5 yards too far into a hazard which you can't see from the tee.  

[Rick_Noyes]

Jerry,
I see your point and as a matter of fact the closest I ever came to a hole-in-one was on a hole where trees obscured everything.  You had to gauge the pin before you walked up to the tee!  I don't remember if I felt more relaxed or the shot was just my best guess....ever.

[A_Clay_Man]

How do those poor scotsman and women do it? Playing TOC with all those blind fairway bunkers. It must take them forever to finish a round.

[Jerry Kluger]

Clay Man: I would then propose to you the question of what is the best way to play a course for the first time in Scotland or Ireland where there are a number of blind shots, particularly pot bunkers, etc.  Do you think you should play it without any knowledge and if you land in a bunker or other hazard that you find it to be part of the experience of playing the course or should you go out with a caddy who knows every bounce on the course.  I can see some enjoyment in both approaches but getting back to my original point I think that a caddy makes the round more enjoyable.  When the caddy tells you where to hit it or what club to hit and you have confidence in him then you are more likely to have confidence in your swing and better execution.  On the other hand what you don't know won't hurt you so if you can't see a hazard it won't intimidate you.  Blind shots are part of the game and sometimes they work to the player's advantage.

[Ralph Livingston]

"Blind Shots" are only blind the first time you play them. It is really like anything else on a "great" course, to PLAY the course you have to have local knowledge. By play I mean go around the course with no directions from anyone else, all the shots are executed from your own knowledge. Private clubs really need to have this added degree of difficulty to have the courses change for the members. Resort courses and public courses need to be "obviuos" so that people can get around it the first time they play.
If you have greens that require the correct placement in the fairway because of pin placements related to contours, should that not be considered blind until you have played the course and "learned the greens"? (Crystal Downs comes to mind) One of the threads I have been wanting to post is if an "obvious" (all the shot values are obvious on the tee) course can be considered great. I put up for discussion that a course can't be considered great until you have a certain number of rounds under your belt to have learned it.