Romero or Van de Velde

[PThomas]

Romero...Jean got an unbelievably bad break when his ball didn't stay in the grandstand

[Geoffrey Childs]

"Who in the world attempts to hit the deuce from that lie?"

I guess just a guy who makes ten birdies in the final round of "The Open".

Didn't Sam Snead lose the US Open at Philadelphia CC on the 18th hole trying to hit a 2 wood out of what was described as a similar lie?  Thought he needed birdie when he needed a par to win.  He made 8! I guess the only difference is Sam didn't have scoreboards all over the place.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

all the songs going into commercials have been from the British Isles.

I've noticed Pink Floyd, The Who (especially Eminence Front), George Harrison, U2, Queen/David Bowie, and there have probably been a bunch more.

Nice touch...

I love that one of the ones they used the most was Queen's "Under Pressure".  Down the stretch it just seemed the most fitting.

[Garland Bayley]

Van de Velde made the worst decision. It was the decision he made on the tee. He knows 5 will win it. Why not ensure 5. Romero thought he had to go lower to have a chance so he tried the shot that would take him there.

Van de Velde was able to later prove he could have won by playing the 18th with only a putter. How dumb does that make hitting driver?

[Glenn Spencer]

Van de Velde made the worst decision. It was the decision he made on the tee. He knows 5 will win it. Why not ensure 5. Romero thought he had to go lower to have a chance so he tried the shot that would take him there.

Van de Velde was able to later prove he could have won by playing the 18th with only a putter. How dumb does that make hitting driver?

Garland,

Why do you think Romero thought that? He had a two-shot lead when he hit that 2-iron.

I don't know about you guys, but I have never seen someone that breaks 80 more than twice a year hit a 2-iron from rough that deep. Only one professional golfer in the world could make 7 on 18 in 99 and only one golfer has ever tried to hit a 2-iron from that deep of rough. I have to call it a tie.

[Evan_Smith]

Why does nobody bring up the fact that Van de Velde made the worst decision on his second shot!  All he had to do is hit 2 wedges.  He had something like 198yds and I would guess that he may have even made par doing that.  At the worst he would have made 5 and still won by 2.  Yes, hitting driver off the tee was dumb, but he got away with it.  The second shot was the worst decision.

Romero is an idiot for trying to hit a 2 iron from that position.  Yeah he got an unlucky bounce, but that's what happens when you try to hit a shot that he should have been using a 7 iron from.

[Mark Pearce]

Why does nobody bring up the fact that Van de Velde made the worst decision on his second shot!  All he had to do is hit 2 wedges.  He had something like 198yds and I would guess that he may have even made par doing that.  At the worst he would have made 5 and still won by 2.  Yes, hitting driver off the tee was dumb, but he got away with it.  The second shot was the worst decision.

Romero is an idiot for trying to hit a 2 iron from that position.  Yeah he got an unlucky bounce, but that's what happens when you try to hit a shot that he should have been using a 7 iron from.

This is one of golf's longest running canards.  Van de Velde hit a perfectly sensible second shot.  I was glad to hear Andrew Murray on BBC radio earlier this week say exactly that and criticise Peter Allis and his like for their criticism.  VdV had 198 to clear the water.  Get it over the water and he can't make worse than 6 and he's won the tournament.  He cleared the water by a log way, only to get possibly the worst, unluckiest bounce in Open Championship history.

[Ally Mcintosh]

NOTHING can be worse than van de velde's calamity in '99... in my mind, that is the biggest choke in any sport ever...

...do not forget that he knew exactly what he needed to do and that was to shoot a double bogey or better... romero's play doesn't even come close...

[archie_struthers]

 


Not knowing everyones resume I don't know of any posters who could ever understand the pressure of a major ....

Just think how hard it is to make a simple par to win your  club championship, or to break seventy ..eighty or ninety for the first time for that matter ....Romero played marvelously in defeat.....and Van de Velde's up and down for (7) triple still rates in my book as one of the greatest ever...

However....to disparage the kid from Argentinas' round in any way is almost sacriligious...we almost witnessed another miracle like Miller at Oakmont  

everyone chokes...how they handle it is what matters!

[Garland Bayley]

NOTHING can be worse than van de velde's calamity in '99... in my mind, that is the biggest choke in any sport ever...

...do not forget that he knew exactly what he needed to do and that was to shoot a double bogey or better... romero's play doesn't even come close...

Ally,

You are mistaken. He thought he had to make bogey or better, when in fact he had to make double or better.

[Garland Bayley]

Van de Velde made the worst decision. It was the decision he made on the tee. He knows 5 will win it. Why not ensure 5. Romero thought he had to go lower to have a chance so he tried the shot that would take him there.

Van de Velde was able to later prove he could have won by playing the 18th with only a putter. How dumb does that make hitting driver?

Garland,

Why do you think Romero thought that? He had a two-shot lead when he hit that 2-iron.

I don't know about you guys, but I have never seen someone that breaks 80 more than twice a year hit a 2-iron from rough that deep. Only one professional golfer in the world could make 7 on 18 in 99 and only one golfer has ever tried to hit a 2-iron from that deep of rough. I have to call it a tie.

There were players behind him playing a soft course on a benign day were the course record was being challenged and matched. In that scenario, you have to keep on trying to go low. Van de Velde was in the last group knowing full well he didn't even need to par.

[Mark Pearce]

NOTHING can be worse than van de velde's calamity in '99... in my mind, that is the biggest choke in any sport ever...

...do not forget that he knew exactly what he needed to do and that was to shoot a double bogey or better... romero's play doesn't even come close...

Ally,

VdV's ball goes into the stand, rather than rebounding back over the burn off a stanchion, and he gets a free drop in the dropping zone.  From there he chips on and takes one or two putts.  He's the Open Champion.  I think Harrington choked more than VdV but history will, no doubt, treat him differently.

[Mike Hendren]

Gotta go w/ VdV.  What happened to Romero at 17 could happen to anybody.  I know, because on October 21,2003 I brilliantly drove the ball in Carnoustie's 17th fairway.  Then I thinned/semi-shanked my second into the top of the far face of the burn.  It caromed right, narrowly missing some startled gents on the 18th's front tee and hopped the fence OB.  

I did not make six.

Mike

[Evan_Smith]

Ally,

VdV's ball goes into the stand, rather than rebounding back over the burn off a stanchion, and he gets a free drop in the dropping zone.  From there he chips on and takes one or two putts.  He's the Open Champion.  I think Harrington choked more than VdV but history will, no doubt, treat him differently.

Mark
How can you argue that he made the correct decision.  Yeah, all he had was 198 over the water.  But what about the OB left, the OB long and the burn in front!!!!  Why not take all of it out of play and hit 2 wedges into the green and make 5 at worst.  If he didn't know that he was 3 shots in the lead then that's his fault.  With all the scoreboards he should have known where he stood before he hit his second shot.

[Matt_Cohn]

"Jeandres"

Is that mean?

[Mark Pearce]

Ally,

VdV's ball goes into the stand, rather than rebounding back over the burn off a stanchion, and he gets a free drop in the dropping zone.  From there he chips on and takes one or two putts.  He's the Open Champion.  I think Harrington choked more than VdV but history will, no doubt, treat him differently.

Mark
How can you argue that he made the correct decision.  Yeah, all he had was 198 over the water.  But what about the OB left, the OB long and the burn in front!!!!  Why not take all of it out of play and hit 2 wedges into the green and make 5 at worst.  If he didn't know that he was 3 shots in the lead then that's his fault.  With all the scoreboards he should have known where he stood before he hit his second shot.

He went well right, taking the left OOB out of play.  He didn't take enough club to go OOB at the back.  If he puts it in the burn, he's dropping in not too bad a place and playing four to the green - 6 is still the most he can make.  He lays up and then dunks it in the burn and 7s on the cards.Solong as he gets his second shot over the burn and not OOB he's got four shots to get it in the hole and win.  If he hits it in the burn, he's got three.

[Guy Nicholson]

It's Van de Velde because eight years later, he still can't admit he played the hole wrong.

That said, anyone who turns 10 birdies into a 67 is not exactly a master of course management.

[Evan_Smith]

Mark
All he had to do was hit 2 wedges!!!!!!!  Are you seriously telling me that it's easier to hit a 2 iron with trouble everywhere than it is to hit 2 wedge shots.  He would most likely make 5 with a good chance at par.  The way he was playing I can't see his wedge approach being more than 10 feet from the hole.

[Kalen Braley]

Ok OK Ok OK...

We are putting this one to bed for one final time because my buddy pushed me over the edge on this one yesterday.  Van de Velde made a bone headed play and here is why:

Going for the green meant:
1) He had to hit a long iron with jangled nerves.
2) He brought the burn in play.
3) He brought the stands in play where anything can happen and did.
4) He brought OB in play by risking going long or left.

Laying up meant:

NONE OF THESE WERE IN PLAY!!!!!!
DAMN IT IF I WERE THE CADDY I WOULD HAVE PULLED A TIN CUP ON HIM AND LEFT HIM WITH HIS PITCHING WEDGE AND PUTTER!!

Laying up with a wedge short of the burn is about as close as anyonel will have to a sure thing in this situation.

Some will also say, "But he thought on the tee he only had a two shot lead."  Fine, he lays up to 100 yards, puts his next shot in the middle of the green with the same wedge, two putts for bogey, ball game over, and he's drinking some French beer from the cup.  Thats about as much of a sure thing a pro would have in such a brutally pressure filled moment. And if memory serves me right a certain someone did something similar to this on Sunday...

Even doing all that we know he could have still put his wedge in the bunker and 2 putted for the win.


By all means, if I've gone astray here, please feel free to chime in.

[Tim Bert]

Gotta go w/ VdV.  What happened to Romero at 17 could happen to anybody.  I know, because on October 21,2003 I brilliantly drove the ball in Carnoustie's 17th fairway.  Then I thinned/semi-shanked my second into the top of the far face of the burn.  It caromed right, narrowly missing some startled gents on the 18th's front tee and hopped the fence OB.  

I did not make six.

Mike

That must have been one hell of a five!  

[Kalen Braley]

Gotta go w/ VdV.  What happened to Romero at 17 could happen to anybody.  I know, because on October 21,2003 I brilliantly drove the ball in Carnoustie's 17th fairway.  Then I thinned/semi-shanked my second into the top of the far face of the burn.  It caromed right, narrowly missing some startled gents on the 18th's front tee and hopped the fence OB.  

I did not make six.

Mike

That must have been one hell of a five!  

Errr....

I was thinking along the lines of 7 or 8 on that one...  

[Tim Bert]

Gotta go w/ VdV.  What happened to Romero at 17 could happen to anybody.  I know, because on October 21,2003 I brilliantly drove the ball in Carnoustie's 17th fairway.  Then I thinned/semi-shanked my second into the top of the far face of the burn.  It caromed right, narrowly missing some startled gents on the 18th's front tee and hopped the fence OB.  

I did not make six.

Mike

That must have been one hell of a five!  

Errr....

I was thinking along the lines of 7 or 8 on that one...  

That's because you haven't played golf with Bogey.  The only question is whether his re-hit was two feet from the pin, or if he intentionally laid up with the re-hit and sank the 70-yard pitch.

[Glenn Spencer]

Not knowing everyones resume I don't know of any posters who could ever understand the pressure of a major ....

Just think how hard it is to make a simple par to win your  club championship, or to break seventy ..eighty or ninety for the first time for that matter ....Romero played marvelously in defeat.....and Van de Velde's up and down for (7) triple still rates in my book as one of the greatest ever...

However....to disparage the kid from Argentinas' round in any way is almost sacriligious...we almost witnessed another miracle like Miller at Oakmont  

everyone chokes...how they handle it is what matters!

Archie,

You have answered your own question. It is hard to make a par to win a club championship if you are a 2 handicap. A par for a 2 to win on a tough member's course is the same difficulty as the world's best making a par on a closing hole of a major championship. If I needed par in a US Am qualifier or match to win or move on, I guarantee you that I want it as much as Sergio wanted to par 18 at Carnoustie. It is flat-out hard to win any golf tournament. The pressure is all relative. It is the same for the club guy and his dedication and the pro who works all day and night on his game. They both have doubts.

I look at it like this. Which do you think involves more nerves? A plummer in a poker hand for a $1000 or Donald Trump in a poker hand for a 10 million? There is more money involved on Trump's end, but he is as or more prepared to deal with it. The same goes for professional golfers.

[Glenn Spencer]

NOTHING can be worse than van de velde's calamity in '99... in my mind, that is the biggest choke in any sport ever...

...do not forget that he knew exactly what he needed to do and that was to shoot a double bogey or better... romero's play doesn't even come close...

Ally,

VdV's ball goes into the stand, rather than rebounding back over the burn off a stanchion, and he gets a free drop in the dropping zone.  From there he chips on and takes one or two putts.  He's the Open Champion.  I think Harrington choked more than VdV but history will, no doubt, treat him differently.

Mark,

I agree with you.

Van de Velde- Mental Choke

Harrington- Physical Choke

[Matt_Cohn]

What is a physical choke?

How in the world is it different from a mental choke?