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Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« on: August 21, 2002, 03:17:20 PM »
So I just picked up the latest copy because I am a sucker for nice glossy lists.  In looking over it I could not help but notice that there are some pretty darn good places that the average joe can play nowadays.  

However, most of us can only make a trip to Pebble about once or twice a lifetime considering it is about 400 bucks.  What I was hoping is that some of you could come up with ten, and keep it to ten, courses that offer great quality at a low price.  

Golf magazine uses a $, $$, $$$ $$$$ and $$$$$ system.  Try to keep it to $ or $$.  Hopefully there will be some courses that are not on their list.  I'd imagine that if Pac Dunes does not make it I probably will not be down with your heirarchy.  After all, I played there for 55.00 bucks.  Is Pasatiempo worth 135.00 or whatever it is?  I'm inclined to think so.  Any thoughts?  Rustic Canyon-yes, but not even mentioned on their list.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2002, 03:21:07 PM »
Mdugger,

Another way to measure it...give everyone a theoretical $$ #. Let them squeeze 10 rounds into it....interesting exercise.. Can't play anywhere twice....any takers.....gtg
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

A_Clay_Man

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2002, 03:36:52 PM »
Value is my life  ;D Here are some I can wholeheartedly recommend
1. Pinon Hills - $24 Farmington, Nm.
2. Pacific Grove $35 CAlif.
3. Blackwolf Run (Spring/fall special)
4.Paa-Ko Ridge $51 Albq, Nm.
5. Lawsonia WIsc. $?
6.Riverview GC $9 backnine Kirtland, Nm.
7. Spyglass Hill $100 twilight Ca.
8. Pajaro Valley  ca.   ;D
9. Wolf Run Reno Nevada $?
10. SanJuan Oaks twilight Hollister,Ca.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2002, 04:43:08 PM »
I'm not going to be critical since I evaluate for another magazine but something is wrong with this list when Wild Horse Golf Club in Nebraska is ranked somewhere in the 80's or 90's.  I'm not looking at any of the lists currently (so I'm shooting from a bad memory) but I believe Golfweek has it as #44 as best modern courses and Golf Digest #3 as most affordable so there is a huge discrepancy?  

Anyway it just for discussion purpose and as we all know these lists are subjective and don't prove a damn thing..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2002, 05:13:25 PM »
A_clay_man -

Pajaro Valley?  Are you included it as a value because of the Laguna Seca, Rancho Canada trifecta discount?  (I haven't played any of these courses in years ...)

Question:  Since I am new to GCA, when posters type "PVGC" they are all talking about Pajaro Valley right?  I never new the West Coast PV had such a strong following ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2002, 05:42:46 PM »
Attention K-Mart Shopper:

1. Pacific Dunes $75 (Oct-May $150 for 36)
2. Bethpage Black $34
3. Montauk Downs $34
4. Wild Horse $33
5. Pinion Hills $24
6. Cog Hill #4 $125
7. Pasatiempo $135
8. Bandon Dunes $88 (Oct-May $175 for 36)
9. Cuscowilla $75 (Haven't played there, but my partner loved it)
10. Any of the expensive ones Pebble, Pinehurst, Whistling, TPC, Shadow Creek, etc $350avg.

Total $973

Under $1000 with a great expensive course thrown in....proving that with plenty of gas and a trusty roadrunner, it can be done on the cheap...just like the old days...sure
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

JohnV

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2002, 06:02:42 PM »
Mike,
Pajaro is not part of the Laguna Seca/Rancho Canada group anymore.  As a member of the Players Club there, I can play for $29 on weekdays and $38 on weekends.  More for non-members.  $22 after noon on weekdays.

I just got mail from Bandon telling me that Pacific Dunes is ranked #2 behind Pebble Beach on the best places to play list.  Not having played Pinehurst #2, I can't say if that is right or not.

Another note is that Pasatiempo is running a $80 special for Santa Cruz County residents Monday through Thursday right now.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2002, 07:38:35 PM »
FYI: For those who champion value golf please read on ...

Notice for everyone -- especially fans of Bethpage Black. The State of New York could not leave well enough alone and had to jump right in after the US Open and DOUBLE, THAT'S RIGHT, D-O-U-B-L-E the out-of-state fee to play the Black from $31 on weekdays to $62 and from $39 to $78 on weekends and holidays.

What really pisses me off, sorry for the direct language, but there's no other way to say it, but plenty of out-of-state people like myself (don't mean to be an egotist) and others who ventured to the Black for many a years when turf grew more by accident than design now must take it on the chin.

I understand BB is NY State Park, but does the State of New York / re: Pataki and Castro need to pick the pockets SO SOOON. Sure, it's an easy win because out-of-state people have no say when Pataki runs for re-election this fall.

I love Bethpage and it's still a reasonable fee compared top Pebble and a host of others, but the opportunity to see the course is becoming less and less of a reality for those who live just outside New York let alone those from other states in America.

To all my golfing friends in New York the question now becomes when the fees will be raised for you. My guess? It's doubtful that '03 will see a rise but just wait in '04.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2002, 08:10:06 PM »
Mike- I put Pajaro there because of the golf. While most of the central coast courses are full of themselves, I believe Pajaro gives a better product for less than most. The rolling terrain and variety of golf holes makes for good golf with plenty of options.

One of My favorite holes is the 11th. A mothar of a par three with a well bunkered hour glass shaped green. The trees in the background frame the hole so perfectly I just get that certain feeling when attempting the shot. Besides the pucker :P

If you weren't joking that other PV is in New Jersey, I think.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2002, 04:54:44 PM »
JohnV and Adam,

Thanks for the info on Pajaro, I think I will introduce my 2 teenage sons to it my next trip down to Santa Cruz ...

Mike
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2002, 05:56:13 PM »
These are in no particular order:
Rustic Canyon($30)
Barona Creek($75)
Pacific & Bandon Dunes (1st round a little price, 2nd round half off, any more is FREE) ;D
Stevinson Ranch($45 at noon)
Pasatiempo($135)
Bethpage Black(apparently went up per Matt Ward)
Otter Creek (Indiana)($28 years ago to play all day on a solid RTJ track).
Papago (outside of Phoenix)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

JohnV

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2002, 04:49:21 AM »
As I played one of my rounds at Pacific Dunes 2 weeks ago, I kept asking myself, "Would I rather play here once for $175 or Rustic Canyon 5 times for $32?"  In the end, I think I felt that playing Rustic 5 times was a better deal for me.  As much as I love both Pacific and Bandon, I think I'd take high quantity with very good quality over low quantity with outstanding quality.  Perhaps that is why I didn't play Pebble during my year in Santa Cruz.  Sure I could afford it, but was I played it once and it wasn't worth giving up 15 rounds at Pajaro for.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Rob Hallford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2002, 05:08:20 AM »
Don't forget World Woods two courses for $50 weekday and $60 weekend during the off season (i.e., right now).  Replay is cheap too at $35 either way.  Knock Faz all you want but these are pretty solid courses on the cheap.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2002, 05:31:49 AM »
Rob-  WW is a great value and while people do bash the faz, I believe that most of the bashing is case specific and WWPB escapes that criticism.

However, with IMG doing the maintenance, the value was better a few years back, more so than now.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

scott_wood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2002, 09:58:01 AM »
without a doubt one of the GREATEST values, and one of the most underrated by Golf is Apache Stronghold. Rate last Nov was $109 for 2 rounds of golf (with or without cart), a single newer motel room 100 yards from the 1st tee, an all you can eat dinner buffet (d+ on the quality/b+ on the amount), a all you can eat breakfast, AND 3 golf balls!!!

AND TO DOAK"S COURSE IS GREAT!! Check out previuos threads for the details....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

higkgins

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2002, 10:37:43 AM »
I must echo scott_wood's comments regarding APACHE. (forget the buffet/stay&play package). We played it the last week of MAY2002 for $59, and although they had lost sections of some fairways, the course (overall) was  outstanding !!! Played 3 other Troon courses (including Talking Stick & Troon North - Monument), and I can honestly say APACHE was right up there with (the best of) them in terms of overall golfing experience.

Can't wait to get back !!!   :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2002, 11:58:46 AM »
Rob,
If Fazio built more courses that are the equal to WWPB then I would become his biggest fan. But A_Clay_Man is right, the maintenance at World Woods is not at all like it used to be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2002, 01:07:01 PM »
scott:

I agree with you about Apache Stronghold.  A wonderful course at a great price!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

MJB1

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2002, 03:02:15 PM »
What is wrong with WWPB maintenance?...I played there 3 times in May and thought it the greatest golf value in the country by a longshot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2002, 05:51:36 AM »
I believe WWPB (IMG) uses a method for fertilizing which translates into a weaker blade of grass. When I was there, 2 yrs ago, I found that my ball sat down too far in between the blades of grass in the fairways.
 This resulted in limiting my shot options and I wasn't happy.

Sure the grass was green but who cares. I'd rather see it slightly brown then weak blades that won't hold up your ball.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Cliff H

Re: Bethpage
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2002, 07:47:34 AM »
I thought I had read that the USGA as part of their agreeement with Bethpage insisted that green fees could not be raised for a specified number of years -  3 or so.  Anyone recollect that?  Perhaps it did not apply to out of state golfers.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2002, 07:59:38 AM »
Cliff H:

The agreement from what I understand is that no such provision applied to out-of-state golfers. What irks me is that many of these people who have demonstrated long time loyalty to the facility and really touted the course to the powers-that-be and who played it, when there was no grass or very little, are now left out in the cold.

The joke is simple -- a tremendous amount of $$$ was spent to administer this year's Open and a salute should go to everyone. But, I believe, Newsday ran a story on how much costs went into the event for things such as security and the like. The joke is simple -- out-of-state people are now looked upon as the cash cow to cover those expenses. :P

Clearly, this is a New York State Park System facility and priority should go to those first. However, given that tee times are now even more of a premium and the fanfare from the Open will forever be a part of Bethpage it is a shame that such a truly P-U-B-L-I-C course at one time is becoming with each passing year a de facto "private" club.

The raising of green fees for out-of-state people is an easy deal for Parks Commissioner Bernadette Castro and Governor George Pataki. No out-of-state people vote for his re-election effort so if he pisses them (us) off it can't come back to bite him this November.

I also understand that green fees for NY residents CAN rise but not beyond the rate of inflation for at least a few years. Either way I'm just seriously concerned that BB will lose a big part of what made it such a joy to play for the 30+ plus years I've played at the facility.

Bethpage may be owned by the State of New York but it is part of the golfing community and I would just hope that key people, including the USGA, weigh in privately to make sure that the "people's Open," as it was dubbed, doesn't become the singular playground for the Wall Street types. ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2002, 01:29:19 PM »
MJB1,
The last two times I was at World Woods (last summer and last fall) the greens on the Pine Barrens course had some sort of fungus on them and there were huge patches on most of the greens that were just dirt. Also the Rolling Oaks greens were rolling extremely slow and seemed very spongy.

I assume that these problems weren't present when you played there in May. Hopefully they are getting straightened out.  However I can say that the overall maintenance that I have encountered in my last 4 or 5 visits to World Woods is not close to what I encountered on my first half dozen visits.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

WPM

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2002, 06:47:33 PM »
A great course that nobody has mentioned is The Harvester is Iowa.  Play it for only $50.  Keith Foster designed it in the style of CB Mac (just like Black Creek).  Great course that forces you to think. The last two holes wrap around lake Harvester, 18 being probably the best par five I've ever played.  They're building a second course scheduled to open in a few years too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

WPM

Re: Golf magazine's top 100 places to play
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2002, 06:50:39 PM »
One more note-
  Check out the course at www.harvestergolf.com
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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