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John_Conley

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2007, 02:33:08 PM »
Mountains:
Taconic, The Orchards

City:
Brookline, Charles River, Brae Burn, Boston Golf Club

Country,
Myopia Hunt, Essex County, Old Sandwich, Salem

Ocean,
Kittansett, The Ho!, Nantcuket, Sankaty.

Lots of public options on and near The Cape plus Redtail by Silva, some great 9 holers.........

FOR JIM FRANKLIN:

Notice this list doesn't include Longmeadow, site of a recent US Junior and an absolutley WONDERFUL golf course.  Quite a bit better than The Orchards, in fact.

The list also fails to mention Crumpin-Fox (which I haven't seen) and a modern venue called The Ranch that is pretty cool.  Whitinsville isn't mentioned either.  

The quality of courses left off lists when people rattle off the top courses in Massachusetts tells me that there is a lot of great golf there.  Have you played many of these in Massachusetts?  If you've played a bunch in each state and still come to the conclusion I will concede that you are entitled to it.  If you haven't, you don't know what you are missing in Massachusetts.

Illinois is good, but not above Massachusetts in my eye.  In fact, I'll put it a peg below.



Jim Franklin

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2007, 02:46:17 PM »
John -

Unfortunately, I have only played The Country Club, Kittansett, Old Sandwich, and a few others in Mass. So I have seen the top, but not the rest. I have played most of the IL courses and think it is better at the top. Now I loved the three MA courses I played so I am not downgrading them, just elevating IL. MA would be #6 in my rating.

My brother handles most of the clients in the northeast so I do not get enough opportunities to play there.
Mr Hurricane

Phil McDade

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2007, 03:03:40 PM »
Here we go again. What are these wonderful publics that Ohio has, that I am missing?

Glenn:

Just to be the first...Longaberger!

Andrew Cunningham

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2007, 03:17:38 PM »
After a recent trip to the metro NY area I am saddened to think of what the public player has to choose from.  Bethpage was as good as I had hoped - maybe better.  Outside of this wonderful course there's nothing worth seeking out, IMHO.  Compared to California which has a wonderful mixed of great public and private courses, metro NY is severly lacking.

Matt_Ward

Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2007, 03:48:48 PM »
Andrew C:

You are 100000% correct. NY is great for those with private club connections. For the unaffiliated Joe Sixpacks of the world the choices are a bit more limited -- save for Bethpage Black and Red and a few others of note.

Jim F:

The issue for me on MA and IL is the sheer diversity of topography and top tier courses you see with The Bay State. Be interested to see your comments on that point and whether or not it causes you to change your position.

Glenn S:

Ohio is ahead of NY and Pennsy on the public side -- that may not mean an endorsement of the Buckeye State but it does say it offers more in that area than the Empire and Keystone States have.

LBaker

Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2007, 05:10:54 PM »
I like the discussion.  It's all subjective.  But I am shocked that not one person has included Florida in there top Five?  Is Florida not a true serious golf state?

Matt_Ward

Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2007, 05:13:40 PM »
Lindsay:

I'm biased against the Sunshine State so take my response with a bit of perspective.

In terms of sheer diversity Florida fails the test.

Quantity it has -- quality that matches the level of the top five states is indeed lacking.

That's just me -- others may feel vastly different. That's great because they won't have me competing for tee times there save for the very few number or courses worth playing.

Jim Franklin

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2007, 05:27:34 PM »
I'm with Matt, Florida may have the quantity, but no where near the quality of the other states I mentioned.

And Matt, I need to see more of the Bay State. Right now IL tops it in my opinion. Again that could change with more exposure. I can't argue the varied topography of MA is more diverse than IL, but I still think the quality at the top of IL give it a slight advantage.
Mr Hurricane

John_Conley

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Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2007, 05:53:02 PM »
I like the discussion.  It's all subjective.  But I am shocked that not one person has included Florida in there top Five?  Is Florida not a true serious golf state?

Lindsay, you are on the verge of instigating us to beat the dead horse!  Matt is right about Florida's quantity - over 1,000 courses.  And he's right about the quality - there just aren't many worse selling your sister to play.  Probably 20.

What he was wrong about in the past is that Florida courses are all the same - overbuilt housing tracts enveloping mediocre, flat golfing tracks.

For great golf you should head to the Northeast, not the Southeast.  In fact, the state of South Carolina probably has better modern courses than Florida if you are going head-to-head with the Top 25.

Florida a golf state?  Let's see, I've lived here 15 years.  Participation is actually pretty low, mainly because women don't play here.  (Rarely do you see a group of women on a daily-fee in the Orlando area.)  Weather is lousy.  Too hot in the summer with lots of rain.  When it isn't hot there isn't a lot of daylight.  Courses are, for the most part, too flat to be much better than 'pretty good'.  

What Florida does have is a year-'round golf climate that is beneficial for those wishing to dedicate themselves to the sport.  Competitively it is very strong with exceptional depth.  (With surprisingly little success in USGA events, probably because so few are held on 'Florida-style' courses.)  And it has affordable access.  Compared to the rest of the country golf is downright cheap in many places.

I'm a big advocate for the great Florida courses.  There are some.  Just not as many as you may think.

Matt_Ward

Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2007, 06:04:07 PM »
John C:

Kudos for your honesty.

Playing in Orlando in the summer is akin to playing golf in central India in the middle of the summer monsoons.

Yes, there are a few courses of note -- but when you calculate the overall grand total it's truly a very small number indeed.

Ditto any number of other SE states, save for a few.

Jason Blasberg

Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2007, 06:52:31 PM »
Andrew C:

You are 100000% correct. NY is great for those with private club connections. For the unaffiliated Joe Sixpacks of the world the choices are a bit more limited -- save for Bethpage Black and Red and a few others of note.


The choices are limited in quality, Eastern Suffolk has by far the best public options IMO.  Tallgrass, LI National, Island's End and Montauk Downs are all well worth playing.

I've heard very good things of Split Rock but I've not played it.

Jonathan Cummings

  • Total Karma: -4
Re:Rank 'em best by State
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2007, 06:39:30 AM »
Tiger - I don't have the NGF numbers in front of me but I think as far as rounds played annually in a state goes, Florida wins hands down over California.  Remember that there are about 1000 courses in CA and about 1400 in FL.  

JC