My idea to redesign two holes

[mike_malone]

 I love Glen Mills, but have always thought that #11 and #17 are problem holes.They run parallel to each other between two severely sloping hills with a creek and environmental area in between them. I have thought that there is just not enough room there for two good holes.

    Since I don't like criticism without suggesting alternatives I have an idea. Move #11 tee above #17 green and play #17 fairway to #11 green. Move #17 tee above #11 green and play down #11 fairway to #17 green.

    You can go to Google maps to see the holes in question. They are near the school buildings.


        A few other things that I considered.

        * This would be the only two par 4's or 5's that have a drop shot tee shot and a carry over the environmental area for the approach rather than the tee shot.

       * It would break up the routing  of 5-3-5-3 on the front and 3-5-3-5 on the back. #11 would become a par 5 --#17 a par 4.

       * The forced carry over a rock strewn environmental area of #17 would be gone.

      * The extremely awkward tee shot on #11 would be gone. It is the #1 handicap hole now and only 360 yards because the tee shot is so confining.

      * A bottle hole could be created for the new #17 by extending the new fairway toward the present #11 tees enabling either a bold shot past the pinching point or a layup.

       * Cart Paths could be kept as is except for a spur from the new #11 tee.

       * #11 would be a heroic carry for the big hitter but a relatively easy third shot for the high handicapper

      * #17 approach would be awesome . It would be an carry over the environmental area and bring the presently left greenside bunker into play as a fronting bunker.

    * #17 green may need to be expanded to accept shots from the different angle.

    #11 green works great as a par five green. I would shave down the hill presently to the right of the green to act as a backstop behind the new approach angle.


   We have been speaking about "randomness" and "artistry" on this site recently. This is testament to Bobby Weed's artistry, that these changes are possible with what he already designed.

[mike_malone]

 You might ask "But I thought you said there wasn't enough space for two holes?"
   Well, by moving the tee for #11 you can make more use of the hill by creating more short grass up the hill . Now that hill comes in in an awkward way for your second shot to #17 but from the other angle it would launch your ball into the widest part of the fairway. And there is much more room for the new #17 fairway close to the present #11 tee.

    When I noticed a rock sticking out of that hill (on the current#17) which is only visible from the new angle I saw it as a sign that this could work. That small rock would scare most golfers.


    The new tees could be placed so that you are not hitting over the greens.

    BTW this would require the removal of 15/20 trees to open up the shot to #11 green.

     The angle of approach to the creek and environmental areas and the tree line would discourage someone from driving down the wrong fairway.


       

[wsmorrison]

Maybe you should suggest this "improvement" to Bobby Weed and see what he thinks.  I admit the 11th hole is a tough tee shot, but not if you hit an accurate iron.  You don't have to hit it very far to have a reasonable distance to the green.  Like the tee shot, the approach shot needs to be very precise because it is a long and narrow green.  I don't think there is anything wrong with the hole.  It has unique demands and offers variety, something I know you value.  I don't see why you don't appreciate the hole.

As for the 17th, I like a high demand penultimate hole and this one really works as a very short par 5.  It has a high demand tee shot (no need to hit driver) and the approach to the green is very good with the fronting bunker creating some real interest as well as the severity of the green slopes.

I wouldn't change either.  The course is very cool as is.

[mike_malone]

 I think these changes would make the holes more playable and enjoyable for a wider variety of players. The new approach to #11 for the best players would be daunting. The new tee shot on #17 would provide a challenging option for the best players with a more receptive tee shot for the rest.


   One of the things I really like about GM is that there are many safe areas to hit to which may lead to a more challenging next shot.  But, the constraints of these two holes as presently postioned don't allow for that. My repositioning would be in character with the rest of the  course.

[wsmorrison]

If your proposed approach to 11 would be daunting for the best players, how would it be "enjoyable" for a wide variety of players?

See you on Friday...a Newtown Square Diner beating beckons  

[mike_malone]

 The best players would be going for it in two if they hit a good drive. Those who layup will have a forced carry of only 25 yards or so. I modified my initial post to clarify that #11 would be a par 5-#17 a 4.

[mike_malone]

 I think my inspiration for this came from the redo of DuPont. They moved the rather mundane #15 green to the right to the location of the old #16 tee and made use of the existing creek  which now winds around the left and back of the green. You now have a right angled approach shot .


   Both of the new approach angles for GM would have this angled aspect.

  BTW thanks Wayne for responding.


    I look forward to my dinner. I don't mind a wippin' if you guys are buyin'.