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Tom MacWood

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Amateur vs professional
« on: September 14, 2010, 11:20:28 PM »
How did the R&A, USGA and WGA each approach the question of paid golf architects and amateurism?

Phil_the_Author

Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 12:46:41 AM »
From the book: Tillinghast: Creator of Golf Courses. Reprinted with the permission of the author:

If Such Be Sin

      In 1914 a prominent newspaper published an article entitled “The Amateur in Golf,” and in it President Robert C. Watson of the United States Golf Association was quoted as follows:
      “It is the desire of the governors of the national body only to keep the royal and ancient game absolutely free from the taint of professionalism or even semi-professionalism. There are men who pose as amateurs who make their living from the exposition of how to do this or that in order to produce the best results in playing golf. Unquestionably this comes under the heading of teaching. There are those who lay out plans for the construction of golf courses and derive means of support from the work. Yet they pose as amateurs. Of course an amateur has a perfect right to lay out a golf course and even to teach golf, but he can derive no benefit financially from either and still be a pure amateur.”
      When the clipping was shown to Mr. Tillinghast, who has laid out a number of courses, notably those of the Shawnee Country Club, Aronimink and Davista, he said, “This recalls an English music hall singer’s number, which was entitled ‘Who are you getting at, eh!’”
      I have known Mr. Watson for a great many years, and some of my most pleasant memories are matches which we have had together; consequently, any comments of mine cannot be considered as unfriendly to Mr. Watson personally, but certainly must be understood as being quite at variance with the position which he is taking as president of the national association.
      I must take it for granted that I am some of the game which he is hunting, and he will not have to go into thickets to find me. For a number of years I have been contributing to numerous golf publications and newspapers and I have been paid for this work. I have laid out golf courses and frequently have been called in consultation when courses have been reconstructed. I have been paid for this work and as a matter of fact I consider golf architecture a profession, and I have no hesitancy in quoting my fees for this work. I have considered that this is no violation of the ethics of the amateur golf player, and certainly there has never been any desire to pose as something other than that which I am.
      In laying out a golf course, for which I am paid, I am no more a professional player than an undertaker who lays out a dead golfer for burial, and my endeavor to design golf holes can have no more bearing on my status as a player than could the designing of a clubhouse.
      I have a sufficient knowledge of the rules to know that golf journalism and golf architecture for remuneration have been no violation of the code, and I am of the opinion that the United States Golf Association will make no change which would make them so.
      If by chance golf architecture and golf journalism should, by reason of future legislation, cause me to be regarded as a professional golfer, I will go on record as saying that I shall be proud of my profession.
      I love the game of golf and its association, and sometimes I feel that the many years in the game have fitted me to write intelligently of it, and in my humble way I think that I have, through my writings, fostered golf and kept it before the public as a clean, honest sport of a gentleman.
      In the planning of courses there is the joy of creation, and a keen satisfaction in seeing them develop, until finally they receive the approval of those who play over them. Such work might be the recreation of a millionaire, but there are some of us who find it impossible to devote our attention to it without adequate remuneration, and if the makers of our golf laws see fit to call this professional golf, I certainly shall not criticize them, but I may retain in the future the same opinions which I have had in the past.
      Don’t think for a moment my words contain any arrogance like Boss Tweed’s ‘What are you going to do about it?’ Rather let the question be, what is wrong with it all? If such be sin, then I will continue in the ways of sin.
      From The American Golfer, July 1914.

      The ensuing debates that this article helped to spark brought about the repeal of this ruling. Still, among many within the USGA there was a continuing debate and challenge to this decision. It would gain momentum once again and just a few years later, the President of the USGA, Mr. Frank L. Woodward, held an open discussion of the subject at the annual meeting of the Association. The minutes of the meeting give an insight into the controversy and ultimate decision that was made.
      The definition of an amateur was discussed and, along with it, Section 7 of the Association’s rules where it states that, “No person shall be considered an amateur golfer or shall be eligible to compete in the Amateur Championship of this Association, or in any event for amateurs authorized or held by it, who accepts or has accepted, directly or indirectly, any fee, gratuity, money or other consideration for playing or teaching the game of golf, or who personally makes or repairs golf clubs, golf balls, or other golf articles for pay, or who is or has been a professional in any other branch of athletics…”
      The amateur question had become so heated and debated that Mr. Woodward, while addressing the assembled delegates, could say, “As far as the Executive Committee knows there is nothing to discuss except this matter of this amateur rule, and I take it that you want to have something to say on this subject, and before opening it to general discussion, the Executive Committee has suggested that the matter be presented to you from their standpoint. I do not hesitate to say that the Executive Committee is not in sympathy with all the hectic comments that have been bandied about from mouth to mouth and that have been in the newspapers on the subject…” It would appear that this would include Tilly’s comments as well.
      He continued saying, “The Executive Committee has felt at all times that the rule they now have is practically sufficient to cover the situation…”
      “Practically sufficient.” Those two words defined the causes of the controversy and why it had come to as heated a situation as it did. The problem wasn’t the definitions of amateur as laid out in Section 7; that was straightforward and clear; no, the real culprit was buried in the procedural laws that the Executive Committee had to abide by in Section 8. Basically, this section provided the rules to be followed by the Committee whenever a situation arose that might require an action or punishment on their part. The problem was that before anything could be done, the section required that, “Protests against any individual for violation of Section 7 of these By-laws (and Section 7 is the definition of an amateur) must be made in writing by a member of a club belonging to this Association and must be sent to the Secretary of this Association with a certificate by the Secretary of such club that the protest is lodged by a member in good standing of such club.”
      In other words, the Executive Committee was powerless to address any issue or individual unless there was a formal complaint filed. As Mr. Woodward pointed out to those gathered, “You can readily see how that has pretty nearly prevented the Executive Committee from acting in any case. As a matter of fact they have never had any case of alleged violation presented to them for action, so that as far as they know, officially, there has never been any violation of Rule 7 in the history of the Association.”
      He outlined a number of examples of how the amateur rule had been circumvented and showed that under the existing standards nothing could be done to correct or discipline those involved. He then informed all that changes had been decided upon by the Committee. “Now the first announcement that I care to make in this matter is that the Executive Committee intends to either abolish entirely Section 8, wipe it out, or else substitute for it something like this:
       ‘The Executive Committee shall take cognizance of any violation of Section 7 which may come to its attention in any manner whatever. No person now an amateur shall be declared not to be an amateur without being given the right to be heard in his own defense.’”
      Mr. Woodward would proceed to give specific usages dealing with the amateur issue and the broad set of powers the Executive Committee had awarded itself. He also talked about the philosophical aspects of it. “I personally would welcome some kind of a rule which would enable us to penalize clubs belonging to this Association, for permitting their members, or the members of other clubs, doing things which, as a matter of fact, are against the rules of this Association or against the spirit of the amateur rule…”
      He would also address the two issues that affected Tillinghast directly and that had led to his being declared professional and causing his severe response. “The Executive Committee thinks, as I said, that the present rule is almost as good a rule as we can possibly have… For instance, it is a question in some minds whether a man should be allowed, for pay, to write for the newspapers, for magazines or write books, or edit magazines or produce for money any form of literary activity.
      “The Executive Committee thinks it is wise if the Association permitted every form of literary activity and considers that any one guilty of it and who is bright enough to earn anything thereby, should still be considered an amateur.” There was great applause from those gathered when he said this.
      “There is one other point that has given rise to a difference of opinion – that is the question of golf architecture. There is to the minds of the Executive Committee, no real distinction in principle between the activities of a golfer in connection with the laying out and improvement of golf courses and literary activity…”
      Tillinghast was proved right in his stance, at least for the moment. Despite this, there is no record that he ever applied for reinstatement of his amateur standing. It may be that he was already giving golf lessons for money, something that he would make reference to in his writings years later, or that he realized that his design work was keeping him so busy that he had very little opportunity to play matches at the competitive levels that he once had.
      Things would change again in 1917 at another USGA meeting when this decision would be reversed and simple acts like carrying golf clubs, designing golf courses, or writing a book like this one, would result in being declared a professional. Finally, a number of years later, these matters were settled in favor of Tillinghast’s view.

TEPaul

Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 08:45:35 AM »
Phil:

I don't believe I am misunderstanding what transpired and evolved with the USGA and various people in the teens regarding amateur status. It was a complex issue for a number of reasons including the fact some felt the USGA was not being clear enough or detailed enough about amateur status regarding various activities.

Some today, perhaps including yourself, may even think that Tillinghast was right and the USGA was wrong regarding his amateur status but historically that is only a philosophical point and not a technical point. I say that because when some within and without the USGA began questioning his amateur status regarding taking money for golf architecture or taking money for writing about golf, the USGA either did not have clear enough rules and regulations about what constituted a violation of amateur status or they did not have a procedural mechanism within the USGA that was particularly effective or was very well understood, or at least was endorsed philosophically by many with opinions on the subject.

This is why the issue began to be discussed and tried within the press as it was at that time.

The USGA's position back then and even today was and is that the amateur playing status of a golfer is basically what the USGA says it is at any particular time, and if they change their interpretations and rules, so be it.

One can even see throughout this era that the activities that were considered to be a violation of amateur playing status were ever changing and did change with the USGA’s eventual list of exceptions to their amateur status Rules and Regulations.

And, as far as I can tell having done considerable research on the issue of the USGA’s Amateur Status Rules and Regulations over the history of them being involved with it, they have never actually or technically declared any golfer to be a professional golfer. As far as they have ever gone is to deem that some have violated and lost their amateur playing status. Obviously the idea behind that is they do not feel it is up to them to interpret who is or isn’t a professional, it is only up to them to interpret who is or is not an amateur player.

And I do not believe the Western Golf Association ever actually tried to monitor or regulate amateur playing status themselves as the USGA did. As far as the WGA went was in their criticisms of what they USGA sometimes did on this issue and other issues to do with the administration of what was considered to be the national governing body of golf. The WGA had a rather long history of disagreeing with the USGA on Rules, particularly the playing Rules and specifically with the Rule on the stymie.

But towards the end of the teens some, and some important golf magazines and newspapers, got so upset and excercised over what they felt was an Eastern and elitist mentality on the part of the USGA (particularly over the Quimet amateur status issue), they actually began to propose that the WGA take over as the national governing body of golf for the simple reason it was felt they would be more democratic and representative of most American golfers.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 08:56:10 AM by TEPaul »

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2010, 05:07:50 PM »

The following article might help in some little way.

Its dated 9.02.1909 regards some Golfing Topics which may or may not answer some of your questions regards the definition of Professionalism in Golf and GCA.











Melvyn

TEPaul

Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2010, 06:43:08 PM »
Melvyn:

That article is pretty typical of others on the subject at the time that indicate questions on whether various activities violated amateur status and what to do about it was still very much evolving. Some pretty good descriptions on the evolution of Amateur Status thinking and Rules and Regulations appear throughout "Scotland's Gift Golf," Macdonald's golf biography.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2010, 07:31:02 PM »

And I do not believe the Western Golf Association ever actually tried to monitor or regulate amateur playing status themselves as the USGA did. As far as the WGA went was in their criticisms of what they USGA sometimes did on this issue and other issues to do with the administration of what was considered to be the national governing body of golf. The WGA had a rather long history of disagreeing with the USGA on Rules, particularly the playing Rules and specifically with the Rule on the stymie.

But towards the end of the teens some, and some important golf magazines and newspapers, got so upset and excercised over what they felt was an Eastern and elitist mentality on the part of the USGA (particularly over the Quimet amateur status issue), they actually began to propose that the WGA take over as the national governing body of golf for the simple reason it was felt they would be more democratic and representative of most American golfers.


The WGA's differences with the USGA included amateur status in one famous case. The WGA said Francis Ouimet was still an amateur after the USGA said he was not because of his connection with a sporting goods store. The WGA invited him to play in the 1917 Western Amateur, and he won it. The USGA reinstated him as an amateur when Ouimet entered the Army at the onset of the Great War.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
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DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2010, 11:40:24 PM »
Phil,  I was a bit confused by your post above, and you may want to clarify what is you and what is Tillinghast (or Hazard.)  It took me a number of reads and a look at the old magazines to figure out that the first third of your post is all quoted verbatim from the July 1914 AG, which you noted but it impossible to tell to what your note refers.  It gets even more confusing because it is you quoting Tillinghast (Hazard) quoting Tillinghast, yet neither of you are very careful about indicating who is saying what.   I am sure in the book it must be clearer. 

I also noticed above and on another thread you wrote that the USGA ruled that professional golf writers could not be considered amateur golfers.  Could you please explain how you reached that conclusion, because I think you may be mistaken.  While the golf-writer-as-amateur issue was discussed in 1914-15 but not changed, and I don't think that it was changed in 1917 (or at any time, for that matter.)  I think that when the rule was modified in Sept. 1916 (ratified at the January 1917 annual meeting) the part of the rule which had exempted golf writers from being considered professionals stayed in, while the part exempting golf course designers from being considered professionals was taken out.

Likewise book excerpt is perhaps incorrect or misleading on a number of other points as well.  For instance, you wrote that "his article helped to spark brought about the repeal of this ruling."  So far as I know, there was no repeal in 1914 because there was no rule making architects professionals.  There was a discussion in various newspapers,  and the USGA gave member clubs the opportunity to study and consider the rule and make suggestions for changes, but I am not aware of any action being taken prior to this time which would have required a repeal.   

Also, unless I am missing something, your timeline doesn't accurately reflect what happened. According to the book excerpt:
- In 1914 Tillinghast wrote the article you discussed.
- "[i]The ensuing debates that this article helped to spark brought about the repeal of this ruling[/i]."
- ". . . a few years later, the President of the USGA, Mr. Frank L. Woodward, held an open discussion of the subject at the annual meeting of the Association."
- Tillinghast was proved right in his stance, at least for the moment. Despite this, there is no record that he ever applied for reinstatement of his amateur standing.
- Things would change again in 1917 at another USGA meeting when this decision would be reversed and simple acts like carrying golf clubs, designing golf courses, or writing a book like this one, would result in being declared a professional. Finally, a number of years later, these matters were settled in favor of Tillinghast’s view.

As I said, I don't think that there was a rule against architects as amateurs in 1914.   And because there was no such rule against architects as amateurs nothing had to be repealed.  You wrote that a couple of years passed then before Woodward opened up the discussion again, yet AWT's article was in July 1914 and the meeting to which you refer was in January 1915.   Watson's letter, AWT's response, numerous other letters were all in the months leading up to the the January 1915 meeting where ultimately the, Rule 7 (the amateur rule) was kept the same. In other words, it was all part of one discussion and lead to the result that the rule was NOT changed. 

And the reason why Tillinghast did not appeal for reinstatement seems to be that the USGA had never denied him amateur status, at least not that I know of, and especially not before 1917.  Given that I don't think there was never an enforced rule or decision which declared designers to be professionals until January 1917, he didn't lose his status.  [Query even whether in 1917 Tillinghast would have been famous enough as a golfer be considered to have profited because of his fame in golf.]

Also, Phil, it seems the excerpt perhaps inflates Tillinghast's role in all of this.  From reading your account one might think that Tillinghast was the impetus for the entire policy change and the leading voice in against it. That is hardly the case. It was a broad discussion across golf involving dozens of letters and articles on this issue from famous golfers and men of great prominence. 

Likewise, your understanding of what happened at the January 1915 meeting seems somewhat confused.  Yes, there was an issue about the USGA's inability to act on their own volition, but it is inaccurate to write that the words "'practically sufficient' defined the causes of the controversy and why it had come to as heated a situation as it did"   The reasons usually given for the heat of the discussion was that in the views of many, semi-professionalism had seeped into the game of golf, and that there was strong disagreement about what sort of activity one could engage in and still  d  considered an amateur.   The procedural problem related back to near the turn of the century, where the USGA refused to consider whether Travis was an amateur because the complaint had been brought by an individual and not a member club.  Woodward wanted a change in the rule so that the USGA could investigate and act on their own.  But after so stating Woodward continued on into the substantive issues regarding the Amateur Rule.  As Max Behr wrote "after thus explaining the handicap under which the Executive Committee had always to labor in this regard, he started in to clear the way for a discussion as to what activities should or should not be barred to an amateur." (Jan 1915 GI.)   And this was very much at issue.  In fact, before the meetings the USGA had asked the member clubs to consider whether the amateur rule needed to be changed and to make suggestions as to how the rule should deal with four activities in which Amateurs had been partaking (basically selling repairing or making equipment; teaching golf; writing about golf; and laying out or designing or changing golf courses.)  And regarding the architecture issue and the writing issue the opinions and deliberation of the member clubs seemed to have carried the day.  Again from Behr:

And because the U. S. G. A. have recognized the natural limitations that govern the drawing up of a definition and that to decree that no man shall make money directly or indirectly from the game would create situations too delicate of right solution making the restrictions of a drastic definition at times seem absurd, the golfers of this country should feel gratified with the final result of their deliberation and thought upon the subject. This was, namely, the support of the delegates that the sense of the present definition is correct, but that to make it practically operative [the procedural problem] must be amended to allow the Executive Committee to investigate violations at their own volition.   There is every possibility therefore that [the Amateur Rule] of the By-Laws will remain as it stands to-day.

The irony here is that while most (including Behr) seemed pleased with the USGA's stance, and fine with the procedural change, it was the procedural change which opened the door to the Francis Ouimet issue which would follow the next year.   
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

TEPaul

Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2010, 06:56:23 AM »
Tim:

A lot of people disagreed with the USGA's ruling on Ouimet's amateur status, including some golf associations such as the Western Golf Association (the WGA disagreed with the USGA on a number of issues and Rules issues in the early years). The Massachussetts Golf Assoction also disagreed with the USGA's ruling on Ouimet (and Woodward and Sullivan from Ouimet's club---eg Sullivan was Ouimet's partner in a sporting goods business, and contended that despite the USGA ruling debarring Ouimet as an amateur they would still continue to list him on their handicap list as an amateur.

However, as I understand this entire amateur status history and evolution the USGA as America's ruling body in golf was always considered to be the only organization in American golf that actually made official amateur status rulings. Others might disagree with the USGA but I don't believe any other American golf association or organization ever tried to officially get involved in monitoring and officially ruling on amateur status.

In the early years the USGA made those rulings via their board only but in the 1920s the USGA actually created an Amateur Status Committee which they obviously still have. Today that USGA committee makes the rulings on all American amateur status questions and amateur reinstatement questions (although I believe their decisions are still ratified by the USGA board) while being assisted by regional and state amateur golf associations that begin the process of collecting information on amateur status and reinstatement proceedings.

The various activities that make up amateur status questions have changed a good deal over the years as has the wording of Amateur Status Rules and Regulations. In that vein, I do not believe that the fame or being famous as an amateur golfer was ever the word or criteria used---eg the word and criteria was usually "Skill" and that was generally defined by a golfer who competed in important championships certainly including the USGA's championships. If a golfer did not meet that criteria the USGA generally did not concern themselves with a golfer's playing status. However, on the flip side----eg amateur status reinstatement, fame certainly does have an important place in the USGA's Amateur Status Rules and Regulation, in that if a golfer is considered to be significantly famous as a professional golfer he would not be eligible for amateur status reinstatement (Ex: In the last few years there was a former tour player who actually won on tour who was reinstated as an amateur and that USGA decision was considered to be pretty controversial with quite a few).

 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 07:05:55 AM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2010, 07:30:20 AM »
Also, the procedural complexities (which some called problems) in the early years that were mentioned above within the USGA (specifically Sections 7 and 8 ) were intentional or somewhat intentional on the part of the USGA, at least in my opinion.

That kind of modus operandi was pretty identifiable in those early days amongst some of the men and their philosophies about an Amateur Golf Association such as the USGA.

In a word it could probably be called "elitist" as it had all the characteristics of an elitist mentality that included:

1. Keeping the actual decision making small and limited in the whole issue of how many or which clubs should be considered "Associate" members (voting priveleges) and "Allied" members (not voting). In Macdonald's words this revolved around who he thought had the intelligence and understanding of golf to be given the right to actually vote on important questions.

2. The idea that the barometer for the success of an amateur golf association (or any association) revolved around how few questions on Rules issues were asked of it that they had to define.

3. Resolutions and by-law structuring that were just downright ultra complex to allow these organizations to make their own internal decisions that were not meant for public review and comment.

I think some of the so-called "conservatives" that way in the early years of the USGA included USGA president Watson, Crosby of Georgia and Macdonald of New York. Others on the board of the USGA who appeared to be conservatives on the over-all amateur status issue in the early years were Pennsylvanian Alan Wilson and perhaps his brother Hugh Wilson.

The more liberal element seems to include such as USGA president Woodward, and much earlier USGA president Robertson on the issue of giving allied clubs voting rights (a philosophy Macdonald seemed to say he very much disagreed with).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 07:33:43 AM by TEPaul »

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Amateur vs professional
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2010, 08:05:08 AM »
 8)  Wasn't this all simply a form of class warfare, i.e., emblematic of the club members attempt to maintain power and status over others, let alone competitive advantage?

After all, professionals should mind their places..  ::)
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

TEPaul

Re: Amateur vs professional New
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2010, 08:09:43 AM »
SteveL:

I don't think historically and actually there is much doubt there was some of what you said; perhaps even plenty of it back then. I do not think, however, that was the whole story.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 07:00:39 PM by TEPaul »

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