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JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« on: July 11, 2007, 11:21:25 PM »
This is the link to my entry for the Lido Competition.  Some of you might have seen my name in Golf World.  Tell me what you think:

https://webmail.colgate.edu/exchange/jlyon/Inbox/Scanned%20Drawing.EML/1_multipart_xF8FF_2_JNCL_Lido%20Competition.jpg/C58EA28C-18C0-4a97-9AF2-036E93DDAFB3/JNCL_Lido%20Competition.jpg?attach=1

Below is my description of the hole, in my own words:

•   The fairway extends directly from the tee to the green, and is 150 yards wide at its widest point.  This gives the golfer a multitude of options from the tee in terms of both lines of play and club selection.

•   The preferred line of the shorter hitter is over the two fairway bunkers short and right off the tee.  This allows for easier negotiation of the left fairway bunker on the second shot, which must be challenged to set up an easy third shot.

•   The line off the tee is in part dictated by the placement of the day’s hole location.  A hole located on the right side of the green demands a drive that challenges the left fairway bunkers, which are partially obscured by the six-foot high mound short off the tee.  The contours in this part of the fairway feed to the left bunkers, creating a lethal gathering effect into the hazards.  A shorter drive down this side brings a hidden bunker into play some thirty yards short of the green. A drive hit down the right side will bring a down-slope on the right side of the green into play, severely complicating the approach.

•   A hole located on the left side of the green demands a drive to the plateau towards the right side of the fairway.  Tee shots that are overcooked to the right result in a blind shot.  However, a tee shot that successfully finds the plateau leaves the clearest look at the green.

•   The green itself is not directly defended by bunkers, but two bunkers removed from the putting surface define the long approach shot.  If the hole is maintained in firm condition, long shots landing just over these bunkers will reach the putting surface.

•   The green is quite large and contains many interesting contouring features.  The large mound short of the green affects all approach shots from the right side of the fairway as well as most long putts on the green, much like the 15th at Deal.  A small thumbprint, not unlike the valley of sin found on the original seventh at Augusta National, cuts into the front left portion of the green, providing many unique hole locations.  The ridge cutting in on left side of the green appears cliché in modern design, but, unlike most greens, the ridge extends beyond the putting surface, making for interesting recovery shots and wild bounces.  The back section of the green contains a sharp, triangular shaped tier, six feet high.  The tier itself extends through the back of the green, meaning that approaches that finish over the green leave an unusually straightforward recovery to a back hole location.  This feature is reminiscent of the green found at the 12th at the Old Course at St. Andrew’s.  

•   Overall, the green is large and varied in its contours.  Its outrageousness, its variety, and its size is not unlike many Alister Mackenzie greens, especially the original greens on the 18th at Sitwell Park are the 16th at the Jockey Club (Red).  

•   In conclusion, this golf hole makes an admirable final hole at any golf course, especially the original Lido Golf Course. After being beaten up by the original long par-five seventeenth at the Lido (modeled after the 14th at St. Andrew’s, golfers would look to settle matches in fine fashion with my hole.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 11:22:50 PM by JNC_Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 12:13:03 AM »
That link doesn't work unless you give us all the password to your email account. Try photobucket.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2007, 08:08:55 PM »
Damn.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 10:39:56 AM »
Here is John's design.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2007, 12:10:30 PM »
I'll bite.

The center and right lines look intriguing although I wouldn't go quite so far right - probably just over the center bunker if i could. The left lines seem unrealistic. There's 150 yards of fairway but it looks like just that small area where I could realistically hit my drive. Given those green contours, it would be fun to have more legit options from the tee.

It looks hard to get my teeshot onto that plateau - and if I miss it right, then I'm toast. What does that last right fairway bunker do?

I like the green.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 12:33:29 PM »
Has anyone seen John's birth certificate?

Holy cow, that first post detailing the hole does not sound like a teenager in content, style, or anything else.

Nicely done, I'm envious of your talent.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 05:14:08 PM »
I guess I don't see any advantage to doing other than going straight down the middle, except for the front left pin he shows being accessed from the left.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2007, 07:52:17 PM »
 I realize now that the extremely wide fairway is overkill, but the best way to understand the hole is to examine the green contours.  See if you can zoom in to see them.  Different hole locations call for different lines off the tee.

Matt: The last fairway bunker is gathering bunker meant to show the ideal line for a good angle into a left pin.  If could improve something, it would be the scale/contouring of the fairway.  I geuss I'm used to unusually narrow fairways and, thus, I created narrow areas in which to hit the tee shot.  Check the scale I put on the drawing, but I think the left and right areas are both over 25 yards, if I remember correctly.

I love the green I created and the options/decisions it creates from the fairway and the tee.  I just needed to work more on presenting those options more effectively.

George Pazin:  Trust me, I'm 17, but I'm soon to be starting college.  If I wasn't 17, I could have entered the actual competition.

My main question is, how does this hole compare with the winners, especially the first place contestant?

"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 08:01:11 PM »
You show the left pin locations being approached from the right. However, it looks to me that coming straight up the middle is just as good. As I read your drawing you have a funnel that will take shots to those positions.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 09:53:09 PM »
25 yards? Oh, my bad. I thought it was narrow. I guess you are used to tight fairways   ;D

Re: that bunker, I think it's unnecessary. The plateau means that if you push your drive right you'll have an uneven lie and/or a semi-blind shot. That's reasonable, especially if you've executed a long carry over sand to get it to that point.

How far to completely fly the left bunker?

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2007, 10:39:34 PM »
Probably 270ish to get it over the bunker.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 01:13:41 PM »

My main question is, how does this hole compare with the winners, especially the first place contestant?



Yours is better.

Apparently the only way to win a paper design competition is to come up with convoluted multiple fairways - kkep that in mind for next year!

Where are you going to school? Just to be clear, I wasn't truly doubting your age, just trying to cleverly express my admiration.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2007, 10:30:19 PM »
George,

I suspect John will be going to Colgate U.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Entry for the Lido Design Competition
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2007, 10:45:35 PM »
George:

Garland is right, I am attending Colgate starting in the fall.  I took your remark as a compliment, don't worry.

I geuss I thought my fairway was convoluted enough to win :)
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas