[Tom Scupholm III]

I am visting Arcadia Bluffs and the Kingsley Club in the near future.  Any opinions or great features to take note of that I might miss.  I have never played either before.

Thanks,
Tom

[Jeff Doerr]

Tom,

I have a good friend who played both and had multiple rounds at Crystal Downs. He REALLY liked Kingsley. He said Arcadia was like the dyed blonde with implants - really catches your eye, but the attraction did not go very deep.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Tom,

          You are a lucky man, both courses are a blast to play, and the contrast between the two should be interesting. While its true that Arcadia may have some serious eye candy, there is some very good golf out there.

          Enjoy, wish I was playing there.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Kingsley is strong from the first hole through the eighteenth.  Some holes are so unique that they don't resemble anything you have played before, especially on the front nine.  It is a roller coaster ride of the first degree.
Arcadia Bluffs is situated on a wonderful piece of property overlooking Lake Michigan.  The front nine is ok, but the course really comes to life on the back nine.  if you can play it in the evening it indeed has some special "eye candy."  It is not as good as Kingsley but still is good golf.

[Andy Ryall]

Played Arcadia twice in 2000 and 2002 - it is a fun course to play.  The club re-routed 10 of the holes in 2004 in order for 9 to end up closer to the clubhouse.   My advice would be to play in the PM and take advantage of the excellent twilight rate.   The course has big, undulating greens which can be pretty slick, especially when the wind is up.   Enjoy.

[John Foley]

Tom,

I did the double header a few years back. Both are extremely enjoyable and fun. Kingsley is great laid back, old fasion golf where you'd go out and spend all day there. I think #1 is one of the very best openeing holes around.

Hopwver, don't let anyone sell Arcadian Bluffs short. It is a very strong course in a wonderfull setting. Play late in the day as the sun sets and the shadows grow long.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Enjoy them both ...

My take is that Kingsley is richer in overall details -- particularly in and around the putting surfaces.

Arcadia provides a scenic connection that's very hard to beat. The layout is more brawny and could be viewed by some as too muscular in spots. In my mind, Arcadia would provide the more strenuous test -- especially when the winds whip off the Lake.

If I had ten rounds -- I'd give the edge to Kingsley something like 6.5 rounds to 3.5 - if half rounds can count. One last thing -- no one should think I am minimizing Arcadia -- I am simply elevating Kingsley. If Kingsley had Lake Michigan next to it the rave reviews would be even more striking for what it would then provide.

[Andy Troeger]

I don't have too much to add to what's already been posted. I've played them both in the last couple years and they're both very strong. I would agree that I liked Kingsley better. Matt's ratio is similar to what mine would be...either 6-4 or 7-3 Kingsley.

Take your camera to both courses  

[Nick Pozaric]

How far are Kingsley, Arcadia, and Crystal Downs from each other and also Traverse City?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

How far are Kingsley, Arcadia, and Crystal Downs from each other and also Traverse City?

I've been considering making this trip, but have not been up there.  These times are estimates based upon google maps.

Kingsley Club - TC = 35 mins
Arcadia Bluffs - TC = 60 mins
Crystal Downs - TC = 60 mins

Arcadia Bluffs - Crystal Downs = 30 mins
Crystal Downs - Kingsley Club = 70 mins
Kingsley Club - Arcadia Bluffs = 70 mins

[Anthony_Nysse]

Please consider that I think that Mike Devries is the BEST up and coming architects in America and after several rounds of golf and dinner, have been fortunate enough to here his stories and also design thoughts. From meeting him at Pilgrims Run with Kris Shuemaker and walking Diamond Springs several times during construction, Kingsley Club is a course that has Mike DeVries coming out of it's seems-He was really allowed to use his imagination and express most everything that he wanted on a very good northern Michigan site. Kingsley Club is one of the best courses in America that is really yet to be discovered-and maybe that's why they are also allowing some  outside play, to help get their name out there-I don't know. If there is one drawback to Mike's courses, it that the greens can be very severe! Without a doubt fun, but severe enough that the ground game can be taken out because an aerial approach is needed to get to some of the pin locations. Dan Lucas is also a great superintendent that gets the most out of Kingsley. Kingsley Club has everything that this sigh is supposed to be like, what alot of people on this site view as good golf.
  As for Arcadia Bluffs-I just had the fortune of playing here about 2 weeks ago and was COMPLETELY blown away-The turf conditions were an par with ANY high end, Top 100 private course and each hole had something neat that the other 17 didn't have. AB plays different everyday because of the stiff breeze that blows over Lake Michigan-The views are tremendous! The sheer size of AB is amazing-HUGE greens, HUGE fairways, HUGE bunkers and everything has a subtle flow to it. The deep pot bunkers to the amazing size of many greens-seriously- roller coasters! AB has greens perched up on hills and bluffs, (#3, #8 #12, #13, #18) down in valleys (#2, #4, #9, #10, #11, #14) There just seems to be more to think about off the tee and on the approach shots at AB. I've always been a fan of fair golf-I'm not in love with quirky golf courses-Arcadia is a much more fair course than Kingsley, though the clientle is different also.  I think that the better, scratch player would enjoy AB on a day to day basis more than Kingsley because of the wind playing more of a factor, speed of their greens, areas of the course where you just can't miss it on and also it's outstanding variety. AB is will deserving of both it's ranking from Golfweek and Golf Digest.
  Interesting point, neither Mike DeVries nor Warren Henderson have been given the chance to design another large scale course that could receive national attention, which is a shame. They both do very good work. If I had to play 10 rounds, AB wins 7-3.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Brian_Sleeman]

I'd say those Google map estimates are a bit high for the most part.  

From Traverse City:

Kingsley Club - 20 minutes
Crystal Downs - 45 minutes
Arcadia Bluffs - 1 hr 15 minutes

KC to CD: 45 minutes
KC to Arcadia: 45 minutes
CD to Arcadia: 30 minutes

[Joe Hancock]

Tony,

Even though I don't share entirely your perspectives, I do appreciate the honesty in with you shared them. It allows us to understand what your priorities are in your past and future course commentaries.

Joe

[Anthony_Nysse]

Joe,
  Without a doubt, Mike's greens are a breath of fresh air! All the superintendents at the courses that Mikes has designed at LEAST maintained with speeds that keep the greens fun and not over the top-Dan Lucas, Kris Shumaker, Ken Hunt have all done a wonderfull job og not taking to greens to an extreme so that the greens can really feel like some of those build 50, 60 years ago.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[ed_getka]

Anthony,
   What course do you think an 11 handicap with a decent short game would like better?

[Joe Hancock]

Ed,

Shall I grab the net???

Joe

[ed_getka]

Wait, want to make sure it is set first.

Anthony,
   I'm the 11 above. I have been up on the terrace at AB and checked out the holes around the clubhouse and at the twilight rate I wasn't that enticed to get out there. Still pretty expensive and some of the over the top green contours seemed to be there for the sake of being there. I will probably play there someday, but I would be surprised if I preferred it over Kingsley. The setting is great, but I'm not that into settings, unless of course it is Fishers Island.

[Brian Cenci]

IMO if I had 10 rounds it would be 6.5 Arcadia Bluffs and 3.5 Kingsley Club (if we can play 1/2 rounds as stated above).  For those who have simply visited Arcadia and not played it, then you have no frame of reference.  Don't get me wrong, Kingsley is a great great course...but Arcadia is underated and takes a lot of unecessary "heat" on this web-site.  I've said it over and over, you take Arcadia (take away who designed it) and transplant it out in Bandon and it holds it's own against all 3 out there.

Ed, you say Arcadia has some over the top green contours?  Have you seen Kingsley, there are some contours there that I've never seen the likes of throughout all my travels.

-Brian

[John Foley]

I'm with Brian. I'd take Arcadia of Kingley 7-3 in the 10 round decision. It's no slight against Mike Devries & Kingsley, I just think Arcadia is that good.

[Anthony_Nysse]

pretty expensive and some of the over the top green contours seemed to be there for the sake of being there.

 Brian took the words and thoughts out of my mouth when he mentioned the contouring of Kingsleys greens. There is a reason that those greens are maintained to a certain speed. The greens are AB are PLENTY big to have the countouring that they do. Other that probably Pebble Beach, AB can hold its own with any Ocean side course in America, including the beloved Bandon Courses. It also has a more naturae feel that Whistling Straits.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Steve Pozaric]

This discussion has gotten me excited about an upcoming trip to see where I fall in this debate.  

A question, though - any recommendations on where to stay?  Just something nice and (preferably inexpensive).  We are going up in a couple of weeks.

Thanks.

[ed_getka]

Anthony and Brian C,
   I guess I'll just have to go check it out for myself at AB. I don't see what issues one would have with green contours at Kingsley other than #9 and 13. How would your 10 round breakdown be with AB and Crystal Downs?

Steve,
    There is a crossroads (a main road that comes down from Traverse City intersects withthe road coming out of Frankfort)on your way over to Kingsley that has some reasonably priced hotels that I have used in the past. Let us know what you thought of the courses when you get back.

[Brian Cenci]

Anthony and Brian C,
   I guess I'll just have to go check it out for myself at AB. I don't see what issues one would have with green contours at Kingsley other than #9 and 13. How would your 10 round breakdown be with AB and Crystal Downs?

Steve,
    There is a crossroads (a main road that comes down from Traverse City intersects withthe road coming out of Frankfort)on your way over to Kingsley that has some reasonably priced hotels that I have used in the past. Let us know what you thought of the courses when you get back.

Ed,
    If I had 10 at CD, Arcadia and Kingsley it would be like this (again breaking up the 9's):
Crystal Downs = 4.5
Arcadia Bluffs = 4
Kingsley Club = 1.5

[Brian Cenci]

pretty expensive and some of the over the top green contours seemed to be there for the sake of being there.

 Brian took the words and thoughts out of my mouth when he mentioned the contouring of Kingsleys greens. There is a reason that those greens are maintained to a certain speed. The greens are AB are PLENTY big to have the countouring that they do. Other that probably Pebble Beach, AB can hold its own with any Ocean side course in America, including the beloved Bandon Courses. It also has a more naturae feel that Whistling Straits.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Tony,
     Very very true.  Arcadia has a more natural feel than Whistling.  I've said it since having played all Bandon courses, Whistling and Arcadia....they're all interchangable.  In my own opinion Whistling is probably my slight favorite.  But between Bandon Dunes, Bandon Trails, Arcadia Bluffs and Pacific Dunes they're all pretty much equal.  

-Brian

-Brian

[Jim Colton]

Speaking of Arcadia, are there any other decent public courses within an hour or so of AB?  I'm planning on doing the Sunday 2:00 twilight, the follow it up with 36 more the next day, but I need somewhere to play Sunday morning.

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