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Gary

Best Public Course to Learn From
« on: August 27, 2002, 09:41:35 AM »
I was wondering what are some of the better public courses to play to learn the most about golf course architecture.  

The ones that pop into my mind are Pacific Dunes and Pinehurst #2.  These both are more on the high end, but still reasonable.

I will be playing my first McKenzie in October (Pasatiempo).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

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Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2002, 10:53:07 AM »
Gary, I think you just go to various courses, public or private and compare what you see and experience in order to learn about GCA.  You can learn as much from an abomination of a design as you can from a masterpiece, if you have enough to compare with and are pondering what is presented to you as the golfer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2002, 02:15:58 PM »
Gary -

Try looking through the archives for threads on Rustic Canyon, Barona Creek & Wild Horse. There was a thread/argument a while ago on Barona versus Apache Stronghold that, if you can overlook some of the heated parts, contained some really excellent discussion.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2002, 04:02:46 PM »
The $325 walk-on rate at Pinehurst #2 stretches the definition of reasonable for me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2002, 06:40:45 PM »
Gary:

When you get to the Chicago-area, you should hit Cog Hill #4, Kemper Lakes, TPC at Deere Run, the Glen Club and you've found a good mix of modern/classic.

Then head up 2 hours north to play Whistling Straights and the River Course at Blackwolf Run.

You'll find a pretty good mix if you make that trip!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Gary

Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2002, 06:08:01 AM »
I've played Cog, Kohler, and Kemper.  I haven't played Glen club yet.  I actually live down by Wrigley so I am a Chicago resident.  

I guess I framed this topic wrong.  I was looking for input on what would courses that I should play to see really great architecture.  Similar to the Gil Hanse interview where he list the 5 must sees.  

15. What five courses are 'must sees' for students of golf course design?

1. Old Course - to truly understand the impact natural terrain has.

2. National Golf Links - for scale and imagination.

3. Pine Valley - design balance and rugged beauty.

4. Cypress Point - the most perfect blend of art and architecture.

5. North Berwick - to learn not to place limits on creativity.
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Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2002, 06:15:07 AM »
Gary,
If you had only one to go to then it would be TOC. It seems to me that the majority of Architects who are presently building worthwhile courses have all made the pilgrimage? and spent much time in consideration of what lay there.
The cost of going is probably no more than a few rounds at #2 or PB.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

guest

Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2002, 09:51:07 AM »
The Old Course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2002, 02:18:05 PM »
Gary:

You should make a trip to Scotland and play all the great courses there.  You will learn a heckuva lot more about golf course architecture there than you can here.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Dr. Reynolds

Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2002, 07:37:06 PM »
Try making atrip to the Philly area there are a number of really great public golf courses built by many of the classic designers!

Cobbs Creek a great little Hugh wilson design on the city limits!
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Craig_Rokke

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Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2002, 06:43:17 PM »
Dr R.
I wish you were right about great public courses in the Phila area.Aside from Wilson's Cobb's Creek, which appears to be the bones of a once-great public course, I can't think of another very good public course, designed by a well-known classical designer , within a good hour to hour and a half from the city.

As good as the private course grouping is in the area, you
have to travel to A. City or the Poconos for Ross. Again, back to AC for a small taste of Flynn. To the Reading area for 9 holes of Tillinghast (Galen Hall), and much further for public course exposure to all of the other favorites of the classical era.

Are there some strong public, classic courses I've overlooked?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ed_getka

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Re: Best Public Course to Learn From
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2002, 07:49:20 PM »
Gary,
 Pasatiempo is a great course and for public access golf that doesn't require taking out a second mortgage (i.e. Pebble, Spyglass,etc..). If you want company at Pasa put up a post as there are a number of GCA guys around here. Another good course to see interesting architecture at out here is Stevinson Ranch which is probably about 2 hours from Pasatiempo, but is uncrowded midweek and does a great job of illustrating how angles and diagonal carries influence the strategy of the course. Costs around $60 and is worth it.
As someone stated in a previous post the more courses you see the greater your frame of reference, but I have found in the past year by sticking to courses recommended here you will learn more, without seeing over hyped landscape architecture that a lot of golf magazines call good architecture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.
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