[Brent Hutto]

A guy at my club was talking in the pro shop this weekend about having visited the new Nicklaus course at The Cliffs in upstate South Carolina. He said like all the courses up there it's gorgeous. But he didn't find it very much fun to play. I believe his comment was something like "It's just a flat-out tough golf course". I don't know the guy very well but he's a single-digit handicapper with some tournament experience so I don't think he shows up expecting a pushover by any means.

So here's my GCA question. If you're given a piece of land and asked to design a somewhat high-end golf course, is it any extra work to make it really, really tough? As opposed to making it beautiful and interesting but of just average-to-moderate difficulty, I mean.

Is the answer to this question different for a course on a tricky mountainside site than it would be on an easy piece of land? In other words, if the land is challenging to route a golf course on in the first place is it easier if you can make it brutally tough?

I'm assuming through all of this that the Holy Grail is a course that can be playable for the bogey golfer (maybe from up tees) but can be made arbitrarily difficult from the way back tees for a tournament or something. I'm pretty sure that sort of flexibility is hard to pull off. My question is for the case where you just want a hard-hard course versus a not so hard one overall.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have also played The Cliffs at Walnut Cove.   From the back tees it is indeed difficult.  from the member tees it is very playable.  It is tight and the greens are undulating but for a single digit it should be fine if he plays the correct tees.

I think it is easy to design a "had" golf course.  Designing a good golf course is more difficult.

There are a bunch of ways that are used:
a string of 470 yard par fours.
Water, water everywhere.
Small and sloping greens.
Deep rough.
Blind shots to greens.

To make it good but difficult like Oakmont or interesting like Pine Valley or strategic like the Ocean Coures (Kiawah) takes realy talent.

[Doug Siebert]

C'mon Brent, its easy to build a hard golf course.  I could do it, you could do it.  And I'll sell it to the owner as reducing maintenance costs by having less fairway height mowed area, plenty of wetlands and native grass to keep the environmentalists and birdwatchers happy, and of course miles of OB for all the lots we're gonna sell.  And judging by some of the crappy golf courses I've played from time to time, guys like you and me who have no business designing courses apparently sometimes do!

The problem is that it is way too easy to build a hard golf course.  The trick that comparatively few courses pull off is to be challenging for even the best players without being a horror for the guys who can't break 100 on a treeless muni.

[Michael Dugger]

narrow with small greens usually makes hard

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