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Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
New Bethpage Black changes
« on: July 09, 2007, 12:24:16 AM »
Bethpage Black is becoming the Augusta of the past.  Every year there are changes.  Most of the changes are subtle except for the new tees and of course  the abortion, better known as the 14th green.  This years changes are superb and what I've suggested to Craig for several years now.  Due to the extreme humidity, my camera was inoperative, so the changes can only be described.
 
1.  The fairway has been restored down the slope on #6. The wide right fairway was not returned, but now the risk/reward feature of the tee shot is once again an option.
2.  The fairway has been restored from just over the bunkers on #7. This used to be the most stupid thing--a good drive could end up totally block and dead in the thick rough simply because it failed to carry 265 yards.  As for the new tee--once again it is a far from honest yardage.  This could be the very first 540 yard par 4.  Any yardage less than this number is an absolute lie and deception.   I measured the hole very carefully today.  Any yardage less involves cutting the right corner with a 300 yard carry over tall trees to the fairway.  This would be consistent with #4 which is measured at 515 taking a 295 carry over the bunker versus 542 on a 275 yard carry over the same bunker.  Simply stated, I measured #7 from the middle of the new tee on a 265 carry over the bunker and came up with a 540 yard measurement.  The renewed fairway will make the par 5 tee, measured at 553, though it used to be measured around 575--which depends upon the line chosen for measurement, a great risk reward tee shot.
3.   The 9th fairway was widened by 8 yards on the right and appears to also have been shifted a couple yards to the right
4.   The  
back 10th tee has been lengthened 7-10 yards.  This hole is also incorrectly measured.  It is 502 on the card, but really between 515 and 520 based upon line to middle of fairway--I like to base my measurements on a tee ball carry of 265 to 275--not exactly short carry distance!
5.   The fairway on #12 has been restored to the back of the fairway bunker.  In the past, it took a 268 yard carry ( this from my Gorgeous George book) from the back of the back tee to reach the fairway--this usually into a good 1 club prevailing wind.  It's still 261 and 264 over the right pooches of the bunker.
6.   A new tee is being constructed a good 30-60 yards behind the back 13th tee.  It  is positioned closer to the 12th, but far from in play.  Again, there is some yardage deception on the hole.  The 13th used to play 578, but now measures 554 on the card.  I did not notice the faiirway being moved to the right!  The new hole will measure over 600 yards, possibly 640.  I am certain that the 554  comes from a straight line down the right which negates the dogleg that most people who hit the ball with a 275 carry would have to respect.
7.   The front bunkers on 17 have been reworked and look much more like the Tilly look of the past .  This is a very subtle change, but the Black course regular I played with noticed the change and thought very highly of the slight change.

I tend to be hard on the Black, but it is an incredible course that in its days of disrepair had a cool poor man's Pine Valley feel.  There is sandy soil underneath all the Rees restoration greening.  Craig Currier is an incredible super--I've known him since he was an intern for Richard Spear over at Piping Rock.  OT the fireworks tonight were easily the best ever--And we said the same thing last year--never turn down an invitation to attend the Liberty Bell fireworks! I look forward to the day that Craig imitates what Richard Spear did between the 16th tee and fairway--very Pine Valley while looking like it belongs to Piping Rock.

Phil_the_Author

Re:New Bethpage Black changes
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2007, 07:47:23 AM »
Robert,

You missed a few:

1- Tree removals behind the 4th green and enlarging bunker front left  and furthest away from green.

2- Not only was the wide right of #6 not restored, they tightened it up by some 5-8 feet.

3- The back tee on #8 was lowered.

4- The cross bunker on #12 had nearly 15 feet of the right hand side removed and the fairway moved left. There were also a whole bunch of trees removed down the right hand side.

5- The new bunker added last year on #14 was changed from narrow and long to large with fingers. Also, you need to ask Dr. Childs how he feels about the green on #14 as he has changed his mind.

6- There was some green recovery done on at least 4 of the greens with more to follow.

HamiltonBHearst

Re:New Bethpage Black changes
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 08:18:51 AM »


"this years changes are superb and what I've suggested to Craig for several years now".  

Robert
Do you think you can get them to re-measure the course?  What is the process in which changes are made at Bethpage?  Is it all Craig in consultation with well respected local PGA members?

Is Rees Jones still involved in the process?

peter_mcknight

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Bethpage Black changes
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 03:28:56 PM »
Mr Deruntz...

So, would the card of the course read as follows?  Are there any other new tees on the course?  Will the 18th remain as it was in 2002?

430
390
210
520
455
410
490 (playing as a par 4 in 2009)
220
435
3560 yards par 35

495
435
500
600
160
475
485
215
410
3775 yards par 35

7335 yards par 70


Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New Bethpage Black changes
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 07:51:39 PM »
I did notice the reworking of the 12th fairway bunker, but missed that it had lost some of its size.  The face had endured quite a bit of abuse from top of the lip entrees into the bunker.  I thought the trees on #4 were removed in fall of 2005.  As for the correct yardage:
    430
    389
    205
    542
    505
    408
    540
    210
    460
    ----
   3689

    515
    435
    499
    620     really somewhere between 600 and 640
    161
    478
    490
    207
    411
   ------
    3816

  7,505  par 70
   

Matt_Ward

Re:New Bethpage Black changes
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 08:20:28 PM »
The movement to making the Black even LONGER AND MORE DIFFICULT is a serious flaw and will only mean the course will be seen as being simply about length.

The Black reminds me of the muscular ball players you see today who used (or still are using) steroids and other banned substances.

I am a mega fan of the Black but the rush to make the course even longer and tougher flies in the face of its chief weakness -- little finesse play.

I salute mowing the 6th fairway back to where it was.

As always -- the opportunity to reconfigure the closing hole is left on the drawing board.

The Black is a superb course -- all this UPGRADING -- is nothing more than piling on and frankly unnecessary IMHO.

p.s. I'd like to see the USGA play the 7th in '09 as both a par-5 and par-4 hole. That would be fun to see happen.

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