Removing a club from your bag

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Patrick,
When I was visiting Tacoma in late April, at Chambers Bay, I had 7 clubs in the bag. (my small Titleist carry bag I use for grudge matches at Holmby/Tori Pines)

Other then the difficult first, (difficult because it's a plus 400 yard hole into the wind to a rather interestingly shaped plateau-like green. I think I had the perfect 7 clubs to play around 9 select holes from that course. (although we were hitting off of a mat, which I think made it more difficult)

• R7 Driver
• Taylor Made Rescue 19 deg. 3
• Ping Eye 2 5 Iron
• Ping Eye 2 8 Iron
• Ping Eye 2 Pitching Wedge
• Callaway Hi-Lob 59 deg. Wedge
• Ping Anser putter

I found that with these 7 clubs I was to focusing more on hitting shots I needed as well as putting an emphasis on feel for distance.

I think it's a much more free way of playing. Almost liberating. Unfortunately I've got 14 clubs in the bag now, thinking I need them.

[Tom Birkert]

Interesting subject… Personally the putter (another Yes user, this time a Tiffany 34”) is one of my favourite clubs in the bag and I have huge confidence in it so the idea of carrying two would not be of any benefit to me.

I have also been tinkering with my bag while I was in the US. I used to carry a 2 iron but gave this up a couple of years ago for a Rescue hybrid, and now I’ve removed the 3 wood from my bag as I really don’t need it at my home course, plus the new hybrid I purchased goes about 240 which is the limit for lay up distance on pretty much all the holes where I can’t hit driver in the summer. The composition might well change when the winter comes around…

As such, I’m currently thinking about pulling the 3 iron in order to add another wedge, I really don’t use it that often at all and I can hit a 4 iron harder if I need to, and I like the idea of having wedges at 48, 52, 56 and 60 rather than 48, 54 and 60.

I’m also very, very tempted to pull the trigger on a set of Miura forged irons but they’re not cheap…

[Ally Mcintosh]

without reading the rest of this thread, i'm with matt cohen on his original post... i play my 4-iron least (although in my case it's the third longest iron)

in my bag:

driver
4-wood
1-iron
3-9 irons
3 wedges
putter

[JESII]

Having used 3 wedges for about 30 years, I"ve now taken to using two (2) putters.

Which means that I have to remove a club from my bag.

The only woods I carry are, Driver and 3-wood.

Irons are 2-9 with three wedges.

In order to be able to deal with every possible situation and all architectural features, what club would you remove that would have a minimal impact on your play ?

While it's course specific, what club would you remove from your bag ?

I've chosen the 6 iron.

I think I'm ready for that match now, Patrick...

Here's another idea...have you thought of how easy it would be to have one driver that went right to left and another that went left to right?

[Darren_Kilfara]

The idea of Patrick starting an OT thread aside , isn't a two-putter system a slow-play disaster waiting to happen? You bring two putters to the green with you, you have to keep track of the one you're not using. bringing it with you wherever you go on the green (and, if the greens are wet, probably a towel as well). Plus, the idea of pausing on a green to consider which putter to use in the event that you're near the distance breakpoint you've set up - three feet, in Pat's example - seems terribly silly. What if you're just over three feet, or you've got a short putt with an unusual amount of break?

[Patrick_Mucci]

The idea of Patrick starting an OT thread aside , isn't a two-putter system a slow-play disaster waiting to happen?

I'm a fairly fast player, so two putters won't slow me down.[/color]

You bring two putters to the green with you, you have to keep track of the one you're not using.

I may have Senior moments, but, I don't have blackouts or amnesia.[/color]

bringing it with you wherever you go on the green (and, if the greens are wet, probably a towel as well).

It's no big deal.
Don't we do the same thing when we're just off the green, bringing a few clubs plus our putter with us ?[/color]

Plus, the idea of pausing on a green to consider which putter to use in the event that you're near the distance breakpoint you've set up - three feet, in Pat's example - seems terribly silly.

Since it's been working, I don't consider it silly, and for tweeners, I rely on the particulars of the putt and my gut.[/color]

What if you're just over three feet, or you've got a short putt with an unusual amount of break?

Then I'll go with what my gut tells me.[/color]

Geoff Childs,

I know.
I"ve intellectualized both battles and it's frustrating as hell that I can't conquer my putting woes.  Somedays I putt very well and some days a 1 footer looks frightening.

Doug Siebert,

I've missed more than a fair share of 1 to 2 footers.
If I hadn't, I'd be using one putter.

I"m not changing the lofts on my irons.

As I stated, the issue is course related, so changing the lofts on two clubs won't happen.

Kevin Reilly,

I had heard that Ping will make an old Ping Eye 2 Berylium set but didn't know who to contact, thanks

JES II,

You'll have to get in line.
There's sending limos and planes just to get me to play matches.

If Ran ever had an opening, now might be the time.
Although..........  I doubt it.

[Mark_Fine]

Pat,
I routinely practice at my home club playing nine holes or so with just four clubs.  I find it improves my game and makes me hit "shots".  14 clubs are over-rated.  If you are a good player, remove any club other than your driver or your putter and you will adapt with little problem.  

[Bill_McBride]

I recently solved the 3 wedge dilemma (GW, SW, LW) by starting to carry 53* and 58* wedges.  

[George Pazin]

I got dragged out for a quick round the other day and counted my clubs after I snatched them out of my trunk - I think it was 11 or 12. It wasn't till after I took a closer look on the first tee that I realized I had 2 drivers, 2 7 irons and 2 PWs among the 12. Made for some interesting club selections.

A few years ago I was trying to improve and had decided to leave my woods in the car (for an entire season, actually). I was playing with a guy who's around scratch and he couldn't believe that I, being a lowly bogey golfer, was only hitting 3 irons off the tee. He was the first player I remember saying he hit his driver straighter than his long irons.

Is Patrick struggling with putting one of the signs of the apocalypse? I had always thought he was an ace putter, from what I've read on here.

[Patrick_Mucci]

et. al.,

I've played rounds with one club, three clubs and four clubs, for fun.

But, I'm not talking about fun rounds.

I'm talking about competitive rounds, rounds for $ or silver.

It's easy to play with any number of clubs you choose when nothing of significance is on the line.

But, what do you do when it counts in a tournament or other highly competitive rounds ?

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:

"Convert" my ass.  The man himself says it's a desparate act for desparate times.  Read his reply to Geoffrey Childs.

And the fact remains that if the use of two putters was the best way to play this game, every player on tour would do so.  Can you name one that does?

Patrick, I gotta go with Geoffrey on this.  You are a great player and far too young to give into such desparation.  Oh hell I know putting can be a very frustrating thing... but this is such a give-in to the golf demons that you're really never going to putt well this way - they just won't allow it.  Oh, you'll likely putt better than the awful states you must have gotten in to make this switch, but you'll never put as well as you once did.  And you still can do so... you know it.

Heck, use the broomstick of all putts if you want - that to me is better than the foolish desparation shivas preaches, who of course also only came to do this because he got the dreaded "y" word also.

Save yourself from the madness.  Stick to one putter.

OH, and re this idea of playing with 7 clubs and the like as Tommy does/has, it is fun.  I did it for awhile myself.  Dan King is a great proponent of this.  But Dan King also never keeps score.  It is a fun way to play for screw-around rounds... but no way does it work in competition or in any round you truly care about.  This game is hard enough without having to create shots when the chips are down.

TH

[LATE EDIT - great minds think alike, re my last paragraph and the post you did whilst I was typing.]

[Mike Benham]

I have been having this discussion with a fellow golfer for many weeks now, which clubs to remove and why ...

I have opted for the 4 wedge set-up, not because I am Tom Kite but because the modern PW has 47 degrees of loft and carrying a 56 and 60 left a big hole in the 100-125 yard area.

So I dropped the 3 iron and inserted another wedge of 52/53 degrees.  

This allows full or nearly full swings with the wedges guaranteeing better distance control on shots between 60 - 125 yards, and there are far more situations where it is important to be accurate with distance control at 60-125 then at 180-200.


However, I did have to laugh last week when I was in the situation of needing to hit a low drawing 3 iron from under a tree ...  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Huckaby,

My long and intermediate range putting remains more than adequate, but, inside of three feet, on certain days, it's a struggle.

I attribute some of the problem to breaking my right wrist playing basketball years ago.   Before that, I was very good from 6 feet and in.  Today, it's the reverse.

And now, the frightening part.

I'm scheduled to play two days at Oakmont soon and the Assistant Pro told me the greens are running faster than they were during the Open.

Four putting from 3 feet has no appeal.

Perhaps it's weight related.
When I was thin, I didn't have to go around anything with my stroke.

[Tom Huckaby]

Hello Michael:

That fellow golfer sure is devilishly handsome.  

Hey, choice of which weapons to put in one's 14-piece arsenal comes down to personal preference and the power and style of one's game, and his strengths and weaknesses.  If one routinely pumps out high, soft-landing 320 yard drives like a fellow golfer with whom I have been discussing this issue for several weeks, then he needs multiple wedges and can tend to omit one or more of the longer clubs.

But that's not the issue here, not really.  Carrying two putters at the expense of more useful clubs, well... to me the decision to carry the second putter is the crux of the matter.  Pat's way too good of a player to resort to the desparation shivas has.

Thus I refuse to give in and answer his question.  He knows damn well himself that he shouldn't be carrying two putters.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Search your soul, Pat.

You know this is wrong.  You know it's an absolute desparate crutch.

You can overcome it.

Oh, do what you must for Oakmont - but heck, that's an outlier anyway - you'd likely have some putting woes even at your best there.

But after that... come back to sanity, my friend.

Like I say, use the broomstick for all putts.  With practice it can't be THAT bad from distance.

But two putters?

Utter madness.  You know it, and shivas does as well.

TH

[Bill_McBride]

You could also compound the problem by wanting to carry two DRIVERS like Phil!  

[Garland Bayley]

I know you aren't a high handicapper like me, so this might not apply as well to you. The longer the iron, the harder it is to hit it to an exact distance. Therefore, it seems quite obvious to me to remove the next to longest iron, and use the longest iron to try to hit the shorter distances too.

The other response that makes good sense to me is to equi space the lofts. However, since you are going to be more accurate with the wedges and short irons, perhaps just equi space the lofts for the mid to long irons.

[Garland Bayley]

I've chosen the 6 iron.

Not me, I've aced x2 with the 6-iron!

I have D, 3-w, 3 hybrids, 3-9, 48*, 54* putter and 60* soon to hit the trash for a 58*.

I never leave out the 6i.

That's 16 clubs Bill. I think Pat wants to be more conventional and follow the rules.

[JESII]

Hey Pat, if you draw a line on your ball and then line it up with the exact direction you want to hit those short putts it makes them impossible to miss...come to think of it, it's almost like cheating...

[Geoffrey Childs]

Tom Huckaby,

My long and intermediate range putting remains more than adequate, but, inside of three feet, on certain days, it's a struggle.

And now, the frightening part.

I'm scheduled to play two days at Oakmont soon and the Assistant Pro told me the greens are running faster than they were during the Open.

Four putting from 3 feet has no appeal.

Pat

Your reasoning is mad.  Aren't you the guy who ALWAYS reminds me not to think negatively on the golf course when I chant my usual "OH GEOFFREY" after a poor shot and give you some negitivity about my swing?  

The worst consequence of missing a 3 footer or four putting from 3 feet is that you add one or two shots to your final score.  Stand up there and putt with that attitude! Why not just use your 3 foot putter for ALL your putts and work on your lag putting with it?

You are scaring me with this change of attitude.  If you can't rely on Pat Mucci for a good attitude then we are going down the crapper.

[Tom Huckaby]

Amen, Dr. Childs.  It was also particularly scary to me reading Pat going down this road to insanity... He taught me to think positively over pitch shots, give it a firm positive strike... It's very scary that he of all people has reached this level of desparation.

I too have advocated just using the long putter for all putts... sure seems to me more sane to practice and get better at those from distance than to go down this road to two-putter madness...

Especially for the founding father of think-positive means positive results!

TH

[Kevin_Reilly]

Kevin Reilly,

I had heard that Ping will make an old Ping Eye 2 Berylium set but didn't know who to contact, thanks

Ping can provide individual BeCu club replacements from existing inventory if you provide the serial number of the existing set, but they no longer produce new clubs from that material (toxin concerns).  They also have limitations on the repairs that can be done to BeCu irons.  But, best bet is to call Ping's customer service line.

[David Stamm]

My bag consists of

Driver
3W
2H
4H
5ir-9ir
PW, GW, SW, LW
Putter


I took out my 5wood and 3hybrid and replaced it with my 2 hybrid because it covered pretty much the same distances. If was forced to take out one club, I would probably take out my 3w. I'm inconsistent with it off the deck and rarely go for the green in 2 on 5 pars. If I need to hit it safe off the tee and distnace isn't an issue, I'll hit my 2h.

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:

My man, you can't have it both ways.  Either this is the way all better players will play sooner or later (as you say on page one) or it's the crutch for those without confidence (as you say on page two, and as I've always maintained).  It can't be both.  

I'll buy the latter, and have pity for you who stoop that low.

I'll never buy the former.

And the day Pat Mucci stoops to these desparate measures, it's a sad sad day for us all.... because not only can the guy golf his ball, but he at least USED TO BE as mentally tough as a golfer can get.

TH

[Craig Van Egmond]

At my home course I would probably drop the 4 iron.. as there are no 4 iron shots there.