Removing a club from your bag

[Phil McDade]

I think an interesting experiment would be for the PGA tour to institute a 12 club rule for a year and compare the stats. I bet there wouldn't be a statistically significant difference. I believe they would spread out the lofts on the long irons and score just as well.

Better yet, now that the milkshakes and Stableford are gone from the Tour at Castle Pines, why not have a 12 (or better, 9-10)-club tournament, and MAKE TIGER'S PARTICIPATION MANDATORY (as well as Mickelson). Maybe there is some medicore pro out there, an Omar Uresti type, who really can't compete against Tiger et. al. with 14 but can with 10. Who knew?

[Kalen Braley]

If there is going to be such a tournmant....

Why not do it right and make it a 4 club tournament.  Then we would see some really interesting and creative shotmaking.  Or on a par 3 course, make it a 2 club tourney...

[David Ober]

If there is going to be such a tournmant....

Why not do it right and make it a 4 club tournament.  Then we would see some really interesting and creative shotmaking.  Or on a par 3 course, make it a 2 club tourney...

Boy that would really be fun to watch. I'd definitely tune in to that tournament.

[Phil McDade]

If there is going to be such a tournmant....

Why not do it right and make it a 4 club tournament.  Then we would see some really interesting and creative shotmaking.  Or on a par 3 course, make it a 2 club tourney...

Kalen:

I shot a legitimate 44 (with a three-putt on the last hole -- gack!) on a legitimate par-36 nine-hole course for a local club that used to run a two-club tourney (putter mandatory). Honestly, it was one of the best ball-striking rounds of my life.

[Kalen Braley]

That is very impressive Phil...

A 2 club tourney on a par 36 9 holer...With the putter being mandatory, I'm guessing you played with a 5 iron?  Am I right?  

[Ken Moum]

That is very impressive Phil...

A 2 club tourney on a par 36 9 holer...With the putter being mandatory, I'm guessing you played with a 5 iron?  Am I right?  

I usesd to play with a fellow who repeatedly asserted that he couldn't hit a decent shot when he was "between clubs." At the time he played to about a 12 handicap.

So one day I challeneged him to a one-club contest over nine holes, par 36.

We both chose 4 irons, and he drove me into the ground like a tent stake.  Shot 43, which was pretty close to his average with 14 clubs.

At least it gave me the option of telling him to stop whining about being between clubs.

K

[Garland Bayley]

I haven't tried it recently, but years back when I seldom played golf, I could shoot the same score with 7 iron and putter as I could with the whole set.

Of course this is far different than the pros. The 7 iron has always been my favorite and is the one I am most likely to hit well. The other clubs would send me to places that generally should remain unseen.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Pat

It's been 3 weeks since you posted about carrying two putters.

You were worried about 4 putting at Oakmont.

So spill the beans -

How is your experiment progressing?

Will 2 putters be a fixture in your bag?

I predict that you will come to your senses shortly if you have not already and put that strong will of your to good use and overcome this with one putter.

Curious folk want to know.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Geoff,

My experiment is on hold.

I have a detached retina and have been unable to play golf for weeks.

I suspect that I'll be unable to play until cleared to do so by the doctors, and even then, being able to, in terms of the lifting of the restriction, won't equate to being able play from a practical perspective as my vision will continue to be impaired for a few more weeks.

I'm thinking of swinging with one eye closed, but, I'm not so sure that a sharp impact would be in my best interest.
So, I think I'll shelve that idea when I'm cleared.

At Oakmont I used one putter.

My flight was 6 hours late and I didn't get to bed until 3:00 am, so, I wasn't exactly in a prefered state when I played.
The next night wasn't any better.  I was a tired camper, and begining to have trouble with my eye, I just didn't know it was that severe.

Oakmont's greens demand that you be below 4 and 8 o'clock.

I think my two putter method would have worked very well.
I just don't know if I would have pulled out my six iron since I hit some great shots with it.  I'd probably pull out my 8 or
9-iron at Oakmont.

On our first night we putted on the practice putting green for hours after dinner.  It's lit up, so putting is fun.
Local knowledge is an asset.
As poorly as I putt, my partner, Mark Studer and I, collected from the other three teams.   Perhaps that's the secret.
NIGHT PUTTING, with or without the Dean's daughter, who stopped by for a chat.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Pat

Sorry to learn about your vision problem.  Take care of it as recommended by your doctors and I have no doubt that you will be back playing as well as ever.  

If you can make it back this year it would be great to have you up to Yale. We might even try to arrange some pin locations to test your will on the greens.

I remember spending a lot of time in the dark putting on the green near the first tee at Pebble Beach.  There were some dandies to try if I recall well enough.  Night putting for some coin was fun.

Get well and see you soon!

[Marty Bonnar]

JJB Sports are selling the TM r5 22degree utility for 49 quid.

Should I buy it and dump my 3/4-irons?

It won't lie around in the bag like some slovenly harlot and argue with my splendid 5-wood, will it?

FBD.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Martin
I dropped the 3i for a TM19 degree and have never looked back.  

ONe of my most trusted friends

[David_Tepper]

Speaking of a limited-#-of-clubs pro tournament, Herbert Warren Wind's "Europe in the Fall" article (written in 1964 and now found in his anthology "Following Through") contains a several page report on a 7-club, 4-round, pro tournament held in Britain.

That year, the event was held on the Ailsa course at Turnberry, with many of the better British golf pros participating. The winning score over 4 rounds was 288, just 4-over par.

I don't know if this was a one-time only event or if it was held annually for a number of years.    

[Doug Siebert]

I saw a couple things in the last few days that reminded me of this thread.  First, I read that Vijay Singh added a Cleveland 11 wood he bought at Play It Again Sports (for those who don't know, its a chain that deals in used sports equipment, usually junk) for Tiger's tournament due to the rough at Congressionial.  I don't know what's funnier, a pro using an 11 wood or a guy worth tens of millions buying used club for probably $10.  I guess those big money pros are thrifty when they have to pay for their own equipment

The other thing was that I heard about was a 73 degree wedge.  Yes, that's right 73 degrees!!  I thought it was a gag, but it does seem to be real.  Then I found an 80(!) degree wedge.  That has to be a gag, or is targeted at extremely stupid golfers.

http://www.feelwedges.com/shop/The_73%B0_Satin_wedge_RH_or_LH.html?cPath=6_40

http://fairwaymarketing.zoovy.com/product/XFACTORDRKNOCKDOWN

[Ken Moum]

The other thing was that I heard about was a 73 degree wedge.  Yes, that's right 73 degrees!!  I thought it was a gag, but it does seem to be real.  Then I found an 80(!) degree wedge.  That has to be a gag, or is targeted at extremely stupid golfers.

I've seen the 80* model, one turned up as a lost club at a course I frequented. The pro shop staff was goofing around with it in the shop. and concluded it wasn't useful

But the 73* is legit. I actually took a 65* wedge and bent it as far as I dared to test the concept--got it to about 70*.

For the average flipping/scooping golfer it would be a disaster, but used correctly it has potential.

[Emmy]

No clubs to remove, no bag to remove them from.... Two sets of clubs were stolen from the trunk of our locked car early yesterday morning. Car was parked in front of the house. I'm still wrestling with this disappointment.

[Phil McDade]

That is very impressive Phil...

A 2 club tourney on a par 36 9 holer...With the putter being mandatory, I'm guessing you played with a 5 iron?  Am I right?  

Kalen:

Sorry for the late response; I missed the updates on the thread.

Good guess -- it was a 6-iron. I had played it the year before with a utility club (about a 9-wood); big mistake -- couldn't get myself out of trouble, or a bunker, and airmailed one 75-yard approach. I debated between a 5 and 6, knowing there was one carry over wetlands (the one that prompted the utility club the year before) that would be tough (for me; I'm a short hitter). I chose 6, thinking the advantages around the greens would be worth the risk of that one carry. Made it by 10 yards!

[Paul Stephenson]

I'd take out a 3 or 4 iron.

Although with the way I'm currently putting, I should remove the putter, add a hybrid...and putt with it.

[Kalen Braley]

That is very impressive Phil...

A 2 club tourney on a par 36 9 holer...With the putter being mandatory, I'm guessing you played with a 5 iron?  Am I right?  

Kalen:

Sorry for the late response; I missed the updates on the thread.

Good guess -- it was a 6-iron. I had played it the year before with a utility club (about a 9-wood); big mistake -- couldn't get myself out of trouble, or a bunker, and airmailed one 75-yard approach. I debated between a 5 and 6, knowing there was one carry over wetlands (the one that prompted the utility club the year before) that would be tough (for me; I'm a short hitter). I chose 6, thinking the advantages around the greens would be worth the risk of that one carry. Made it by 10 yards!

Very nice job.  I've often thought a club in that range would work well as its enough to still reach some of the par 4s, likely all of the par 3s and maybe even a par 5.  And you can still hit a half way decent greenside bunker shot with it.

Without a mandatory putter though I think I go 3 wood and 7 iron as you can always put with the 3 wood...

[Tom Huckaby]

Like I say, there's one.  One long and desparate golfer, much like yourself.

So far you have a desparate one, not any smart plural.  Smart golfers, not to mention decent putters, will never take this desparate route.

But I am happy for you that your misery now has some company.

 

[John Kirk]

No clubs to remove, no bag to remove them from.... Two sets of clubs were stolen from the trunk of our locked car early yesterday morning. Car was parked in front of the house. I'm still wrestling with this disappointment.

Emmy noooo....

Have you had any luck getting your clubs back?

More than the actual loss of clubs, the violation one feels when getting ripped off is hard to take.

[Phil McDade]

Uhhh....yeah....and the smart ones are starting to get it.  Huck, Calc has a history of been on the cutting edge of trends....

He's the prototype of player that would go to two putters -- long and talented, so he can afford to drop a club and not lose too much vis-a-vis his competition.  

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if the long putter had been around in the 50s and early 60s, Sam Snead would have used it and it's better than even odds he'd have gone to the 2-putter system!  

And Hogan too!

So there, Huck.  

Maybe Snead, but certainly not Hogan. Hogan was one of the original exactitude guys -- wanting to know exact yardages to certain locations, and having the ability to hit a certain club at nearly that exact distance. I've always believed Hogan's putting went to heck because he spent so much time perfecting the 175-yard fade.

Calc, on the other hand, was one of the early bomb and gouge guys -- golfers who could hit it a ton, didn't necessarily care where it went, and relied on a very good short game/chipping game to score well. He's always been a streaky and goofy putter -- I think he's tried everything under the sun, including the claw, so I'm not that surprised to see him go to two putters, esp. on a short course like Westchester, where he probably made the decision that he'd face more putts where he was comfortable with a long putter than shots where he needed a 5-wood.

[Tom Huckaby]

Like I say, there's one.  One long and desparate golfer, much like yourself.

So far you have a desparate one, not any smart plural.  Smart golfers, not to mention decent putters, will never take this desparate route.

But I am happy for you that your misery now has some company.

 

In this case, Huck, misery is the exclusive province of the stubborn.  Calc, his gigantic check and #2 rank in putting this week are anything but miserable....

Yep, for now he's found some cure for his desparation.  But desparate he was, so wrong you remain.  

Show me a GOOD putter onm top of his game who makes this switch and then I will concede.  THAT is the hogwash you were trying to sell before.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Read it - painfully - my stance remains unchanged.  You think all golfers would benefit from this approach.  And on that, you remain painfully wrong.

See, where your argument falls apart is in the assumption that ALL golfers would be better inside of 10-15 feet with longer putter.  I disagree with that completely.  I've see two many pathetic jabs with that thing to believe it's the panacea for all golfers that apparently it's become for you.  

I will give you this:  IF that is true, it does make a certain logical sense to go the two putter route, especially if you are long off the tee AND suck at putting in the first place.

But if you are neither of those things... it continues to make little sense to change.

But keep trying....

By the way also, golf changes rarely take hold via grass roots.  Golfers don't change until they see it on tour.  That holds true for damn near all equipment innovations.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Well if you wouldn't hop from bed to bed with the frequency of a cheap ham radio, we might get somewhere.

 

Also, I believe our fundamental differences come down to this:  you are a very long-hitter who's struggled with putting.  I'm a relatively short hitter who never has.  To expect us to have a meeting of the minds on this is the funniest part about all of it.

But anyway, I find it fun.  So please do state your position on this, whatever today's version is.  Hell, I might even agree with you.

Maybe I can save you the trouble though.  Here's what I'd agree with (and always have):

Some who struggle with their putting can achieve benefits by switching to a long putter, just as they can using claw or other odd grips.  If they do find benefit using the long putter, it might even make sense to use two putters, as the long putter does seem to be difficult in terms of distance control; thus addition of the short putter and subtraction of another club might make sense.  However, it would seem to ONLY make sense for strong golfers (ie those long off the tee) who won't miss the deletion of a long iron, utility, fairway wood or the like which they don't use anyway.

To me that gives a pretty small set of golfers who would benefit from the two putter approach.  But they do exist.  

I had thought you made this set a lot larger... and if so, well... chalk it up to our fundamental differences in how we play this game.

I just do think a LOT more golfers play like me!

TH