Removing a club from your bag

[Bill_McBride]

I recently solved the 3 wedge dilemma (GW, SW, LW) by starting to carry 53* and 58* wedges.  

sounds like you have 4 wedges going there...

but yeah. 48, 53, 58 is the perfect 3 wedge strategy for me...

How do you figure 4?  I've got your set up - 48 PW, 53 GW/SW, 58 SW/LW.

[Tom Huckaby]

Gordon - so very, very true.  And of course Pat knows this.

I'm thinking Rotella could help... but Pat seems to me to be more of a technique kinda guy.. thus my suggestion of the Stan Utley book.  But either way, the answer lies definitely in the Indian and not the arrow.

Jeff B - do you never use 3woods off the tee?  That's a big reason I'd never get rid of mine... it's a useful club for tighter holes.  I also need it to reach long par fours from time to time, particularly in wind... That's one club I'd never give up.  That is if I were thinking of giving up clubs, which I'm surely not.. and damn sure not to add a 2nd putter.  

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas my man, that's a very mean thing to say - why wish your ills upon others?

 

And I do understand - I gather how desparate you must have become to take this oddball step.  Just admit the desparation, quit trying to sell this as any sort of sense for those of us who can putt, and like I say, this will all be over.

TH

[Gordon Oneil]

Bob Rotella is Satan in an Ashworth.

...I take it you've tried this approach and perhaps it hasn't worked out for you?

[Garland Bayley]

Bob Rotella is Satan in an Ashworth.

...I take it you've tried this approach and perhaps it hasn't worked out for you?

I got news for you. Rotella might help a few, but is way off base for most.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jeff B - do you never use 3woods off the tee?  That's a big reason I'd never get rid of mine... it's a useful club for tighter holes.  I also need it to reach long par fours from time to time, particularly in wind... That's one club I'd never give up.  That is if I were thinking of giving up clubs, which I'm surely not.. and damn sure not to add a 2nd putter.  

Oh, I do, but generally I am an excellent driver, so not as much as others might.  BTW, the same would apply - does the extra 20 yards for those few shots offset the better use of the hybrid out of the roughs on long shots, etc. for those times I use a driver and miss.  

Ditto on the 4th wedge - I carried those for a while and used them.  However, the number of times I felt good using a 64 degree wedge was far fewer than the number of times I felt comfy using the hybrid.  I readusted my wedges from 46/51/56/62 to 46/52/58 with little ill effect.  Actually, the biggest ill effect is no practice, as always.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jeff - got it.  Club choice does turn on our individual strengths and weaknesses.  I just feel comforted you haven't reached the depths of insanity shivas has.

 

BTW, he's right about Rotella and Nicklaus in the context of his last post.  So there is hope for the man.

TH

[JMorgan]

reversible transition

[David Ober]

Bob Rotella is Satan in an Ashworth.

...I take it you've tried this approach and perhaps it hasn't worked out for you?

No, not at all.  I just think he and jack Nicklaus, in the aggregate, are responsible for adding about 20 minutes per round to the time it takes to play golf, between pre-shot routines and the perceived need to pace all yardages off to the last foot.  

Just a joke.  I'm sure his methods are fine.  I just wish he'd get on TV just once and proclaim: "Yes, I advocate a pre-shot routine, but I advocate a FAST pre-shot routine, not a three-part pre-shot interpretive dance/seance all rolled into one...."  

And I wish Jack would say: "Yes, I believe knowing the correct yardages is important, but if I even catch anybody pacing BACKWARDS to get yardage instead of forwards on your way to your ball, I'll rifle a shot with my '72 Pebble Beach 17th hole 1-iron at them..."

I'm a huge Rotella fan and a ridiculously fast player when I want/need to be. In tournament play, I am generally the fastest player in my threesome/foursome, which is usually NOT a good thing if you want to play your best.

[Andy Troeger]

About 6 weeks ago I lost my 9-iron in Colorado, so I've been playing short while trying to find a suitable replacement.

Then about a month ago on the Lakota/Redlands outing my 4-iron broke too (unfortunately on a par five over water...guess where the ball went).

So I've been playing with 12 clubs the last three rounds I've played while trying to find a new 9-iron. Shot 76, 78, 78, all of which were at or better than my average.

I finally found the 9-iron on ebay and the 4-iron will be back and ready to go tomorrow. Who knows what the heck I'll shoot with all of them again

[John Kirk]

It occurred to me that Patrick keeps 2- and 3-iron in his bag because he rarely faces a long carry over water.  I think this says something about the courses Patrick plays.  He generally plays older courses, before long carries over water were incorporated to defend par.  Also, the long iron works best on firmer courses, where a low straight shot runs onto the green.

What I'm saying, you lucky dog, is that you play the kinds of courses we covet here at GCA.  If your home course had a long carry over water on a par 3 or a short par 5, I think you'd own a 5-7 wood or hybrid.

Also, your club choice shows that you rarely play courses where long shots from mid-length rough are required, or you are very accomplished at hitting blades out of the rough.  One reason I love a 7-wood is the versatility out of the rough.  Other players like hybrids for the same reason.

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick last saw the rough in the late 50s.  To say he's a straight driver is like saying shivas kinda sometimes likes to think out of the box.  

 

So that part isn't an issue for him... although you make good points about his lack of need for clubs that carry high and far.

In any case the bottom line remains that we ought not to patronize him, but rather shake him from the lunacy that carrying two putters most definitely means.

Come back to sanity, Patrick.  We've missed you.

 

[Sean Walsh]

The last two rounds I have played I have played with just over half a set

Driver
3W
5W
3i
5i
7i
9i
PW
Putter

I could probably also do without the 5 wood.  I need both the 3W and driver because I generally draw the driver and fade the 3W.

During the two rounds I have played with these clubs I have had
85 (with 40 putts) & 78.  Both on the same Par72 course

Up until last October I was off 16.  I haven't played a competition for 9 months so don't know what I should be off now.

The reason I think fewer clubs works for me is that I might hit my 7i anything from 120-150 yards depending on how I connect with it.  With fewer clubs I play more on feel, as a result I'm not choosing a club for a number I'm choosing whatever feels right for the shot.  And before the shot I probably have a better image of what I am attempting to do.

As an added bonus it's a whole lot lighter
 

[Doug Wright]

Patrick,

I feel your pain. Have you tried The Claw ® ?

[Dan Kelly]

Patrick,

I feel your pain. Have you tried The Claw ® ?

Doug --

If you were going to drop a club, I'd recommend: your putter.

With that Claw of yours (or is it Rihc's?), you'd be holing them from all over with any other club of your choosing.

Dan

[JSlonis]

This thread is right up my alley since I change my set makeup a fair amount to accomodate the different courses I play.

My "normal" bag looks like this:

Driver
14.5* 3 wood
18* hybrid
23* 4I
27* 5I
31* 6I
35* 7I
39* 8I
43* 9I
47* PW
52* GM
56* SW
60* LW

I usually leave out the 3 iron, because I can make up that distance with a hard 4I or a soft 2I.  I figure the long irons are really not your scoring clubs.  I'm usually just trying to hit the green with them, make a par and move on.  Having an extra wedge allows me more options from 130 yards in, and with the way the ball travels these days, I have a lot more wedge shots than I do long irons.

Other clubs in my arsenal are:

16* 1 iron hybrid
21* 3 Hybrid
64* LW

Sometimes I'll substitute one of these clubs for another in the bag depending on the course.  For instance, this week I'm playing in our State Open, and after the first round I took out my 3 wood and replaced it with the 16* hybrid.  For me, there aren't any 3 wood shots, and there are a few par 4's where the 16* club works perfectly.

[Tom Huckaby]

Another great player, another one who gives great thought to set make-up, and another one who doesn't even come close to mentioning the use of two putters.  Many thanks, Jamie.

shivas, it's good you haven't posted in awhile on this.  Total and utter defeat is indeed best met with silence.

The final decision:  two putters, the desparate act of very desparate players, and in no way shape or form a viable usage for anyone else.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas my man, it was you who claimed we'd be seeing this in the bags of all good players.

Once again, just admit you're completely wrong about that, and this all can end.  Until you do though, the drilling will continue.

TH

[George Pazin]

Once again, that's your reality.  But head-case long hitter remains a small subset of golfers, and even in that subset there will be those who benefit more from another wedge or hybrid than a second putter.  You leave out the potential problems that use of two putters add to the mental mix, seeing only the benefits they've given you.

Actually, I think almost all of golf is one giant set of small subsets, and I'd guess there are a decent number of players who would benefit from Shivas's approach. All the many combinations that even excellent players, such as Jamie, MWP, David Ober, etc., utilize when it comes to woods, hybrids, and long irons certainly implies to me that they are specialty clubs and don't come into play nearly as often as the putting aspect of the game, so I can easily see Shivas's approach, and wouldn't even question it.

Heck, if there were a putter that helped more with lag putting from 40+ feet, I might add that. I wouldn't even need to drop one; I threw in a couple extra clubs yesterday just to get up to 14 in my bag, and still noticed that I had a practice club in there that I don't use in play currently. Short putts are no problem right now for me, but I am a lousy lagger. Of course, that is primarily a function of how infrequently I play and practice, not the club. (And in case you missed it, that means I actually played yesterday - well, 11 holes in intermittent rain and lightning, anyway!)

[Tom Huckaby]

shivas:

I have no doubt this conversation isn't over, although it sure as hell should be.  I'm sure we'll talk again in a year or so, and the number of people using this "method" will have risen from 2 to 5.  You'll consider that a trend and declare some sort of victory.  I'll continue to take pity on you and your desparate attempts at validation of your ludicrous, desparate club set up.

George:  it makes sense for those who are truly desparate with their putting.  I never denied that.  But for those who aren't, it's patently stupid.  And thankfully, the latter outweigh the former by a long measure... despite how much shivas wants company in his misery.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom:  should a player be any less a player with fewer than 14 clubs?  Have you ever taken this position in the past in discussions of playing with fewer than 14 clubs?

Asked and answered - read back.

Using less than 14 clubs is good fun, but in competition it remains silly to cede advantage to one's opponents.

TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I would think a 6 is as good as any club to remove. I just bought two new hybrids to fill the 190 to 210 range. I used to use 3 hybrids for that range and went to up to 215. I wanted a 3rd wedge and made the shift to two.

[Tom Huckaby]

Aha, another darn good player chimes in.

JB - any thought of using two putters?  It is the way all good players should play the game, you know - just ask shivas.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

Unless, of course, playing with fewer than 13 non-putters makes you a better player and ballstriker...

Uh-huh.  Keep telling yourself that.

Man it's fun watching you try to convince yourself of that which you know not to be true.  It has really been a lesson in golf mind over matter.

On the other hand, it's also kinda sad how low a once-great player has sunk.

 

[Garland Bayley]

I think an interesting experiment would be for the PGA tour to institute a 12 club rule for a year and compare the stats. I bet there wouldn't be a statistically significant difference. I believe they would spread out the lofts on the long irons and score just as well.