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RJ_Daley

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Anyone from the tree house going to Whistling Straits?
« on: July 02, 2007, 03:35:25 PM »
I've only planned on going to a practice round just to see how the course looks and plays and walk around a bit.  Do any of the GCA.com glitterotti plan on being there at any time?
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Steve Lang

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Re:Anyone from the tree house going to Whistling Straits?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2007, 08:31:59 PM »
 8)

RJ,
No.. but if you find Dan Alpha's group.. cheer him on a little for us back at the Woodlands CC!

ditto for Steve Stoner fro the WCC, he's an alternate.. not known if he's in the field yet.

steve
« Last Edit: July 02, 2007, 08:37:03 PM by Steve Lang »
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Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:Anyone from the tree house going to Whistling Straits?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2007, 12:34:21 AM »
RJ as we discussed at Lawsonia I will be curious if the course is playing link like at all. It was far too moist and green when I was there. The rough had plenty of everthing to make it deep and thick including the fescue. I am not sure what the deal is but it was not what that course should be like. The mature golfers this week will scream if the rough lines are maintained and the wind blows at all.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2007, 12:35:05 AM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

Phil McDade

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Re:Anyone from the tree house going to Whistling Straits?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2007, 01:41:59 PM »
Tiger:

One of the complaints heard by golfers at the PGA at WS a few years ago was that -- although the fairways are fescue -- a different kind of grass was used in the 30-50 yards in front of the green, and it was of a variety that didn't run as fast as fescue, and thus somewhat negated one of the course's strategies, which was to allow both ground-game and aerial approaches.

What was your experience there re. that, if any?


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Anyone from the tree house going to Whistling Straits?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2007, 08:13:20 PM »
While it is early in the week yet,  I was there today (Tues) and we received rain about 3Pm.  In fact, I had just said hello to Mr. Crenshaw after his group hit a tee ball off 10, but they got pulled from the course and didn't even go up the FW to play their shots.  So we left.

Tiger and Phil, I felt the course was playing relatively soft in the FWs.  Balls weren't rolling after landing much more than 10-15 yards.  And, the wind got up pretty well, but many shots that were played just short of the greens were not hopping up and on in a more traditional links style of firmness.

I followed Swampy Sam Torrance and Gilder around a bit, thinking that Marsh and Torrance would play the wind well.  They did.  But, a couple of shots looked like they were expecting more foregreen jump, and didn't get it.  I really thought Torrance looked good, except a disaster at the very difficult 17th where he missed and down to the abyss.  What little I saw of the Irishmen McNaulty and Des Smyth looked like they had nice wind games.  Smyth hit spectacular low wind Tee ball and appraoches to 18 into stiff wind.  Purtzer playing with Ben looked pretty good, and impressivly long.

But, I didn't see any, what I'd call links style golf.  Not firm enough, even though they had the wind to make it a linksy show if they were so inclined.  I guess, even with the option to play that way, they won't because as we are suggesting, the foregreens aren't firm enough to count on the jump-up.  

When I was saying hello to Mr C., another guy asked him what he thought of the course.  Maybe it is just me, but I detected a hesitation, and then the comment, "we only saw it briefly yesterday, so I can't say I know it too well".  I said, "it isn't exactly Sand Hills" and I think he bit his lip.   ;) ;D 8)
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RJ_Daley

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Re:Anyone from the tree house going to Whistling Straits?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 02:41:02 PM »
I couldn't help but post this material from Geoff Shackelford's web site, to contrast with my comments about my observations of Ben Crenshaw's appearance as I interpreted it as I posted above which were made after last Tuesday's practice round.  

Quote
After his second round 67 put him in a tie for 2nd, Ben Crenshaw talked about plenty of fun stuff, including Whistling Straits:


 Q. As an architect yourself when you see a course like this, does that possibly inspire you maybe to?
BEN CRENSHAW: This is a great piece of work. You know, I know a little something about what was here, which was not anything like this. This is unbelievable.

Q. What's the most unbelievable thing about it?
BEN CRENSHAW: Well, this is, to make a course look like this from what it was, is just spectacular creation. This is incredible.

Q. Does it go along with your design philosophy?
BEN CRENSHAW: Well, Pete is probably the best with working with material and just working at it. God, it's just unbelievable.

It would seem that Ben Crenshaw grew fond or amazed with the course as he played it, and took second place!  He didn't say anything negative about the course that I heard.  I'm definitely not saying that he did.  I only commented what I thought I detected him holding back or biting his lip, and that may be the result of my personal bias and what I'd want to believe.  ;) ;D 8)
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tlavin

Re:Anyone from the tree house going to Whistling Straits?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 03:15:03 PM »
Well, one thing's for sure: WS cannot be compared to Sand Hills.  There's just no comparison.  Maybe one could compare WS to Shadow Creek or to TPC Sawgrass where something was created out of pretty much nothing, but just because two courses hearken back to links golf design doesn't mean that they are comparable.  Herb Kohler got what he wanted at Whistling Straits and he clearly picked the right guy to build it for him.  Dick Youngscap got what he wanted at Sand Hills and he clearly picked the right men to build it for him.  It's like apples and oranges.  Lucky enough, most of us like apples and oranges.

RJ_Daley

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Re:Anyone from the tree house going to Whistling Straits?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2007, 03:34:08 PM »
Terry, I agree completely.  I was suggesting that it wasn't exactly sand hills meaning that it doesn't play f&f like sand hills or links style golf, which would be my bias or preference.  I didn't mean that WS was trying to emulate sand hills.  It seems to me like WS is trying to emulate a Ballybunion or the like in appearance, which is also not like sand hills IMO.  

I think the quotes of Crenshaw's interview indicate that he also thinks it is what it is.  WS has the drama created by the design architecture to deliver a fine tournament.  It is elastic enough to accomodate the two levels of players, senior and regular tour, and within each of those groups, deal with the distances of wind or lack thereof.

The one thing I'd like to see is firmer foregreens.  But, that isn't going to happen at WS, I don't think.  I think that to do that aspect right would entail some softening of the contours of foregreen areas and widening of surrounds to make the bounding jump-ups within the realm of fairness.  As it is, the greens hazard surrounds and foregreens contouring are probably too severe for firm and fast foregreens.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 03:35:56 PM by RJ_Daley »
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