Greatest par-4's under 400 yards...

[Joe Bentham]

John
I understand why 2 is a good hole, I just wouldn't call it a short 4par.  On a typical summer day 368 is alot of golf hole.  If your playing 2 as driver, gap wedge then your a BIG hitter most days.  The second shot plays in the 145-160 range for well struck drives.  And that is from the green tees.

Joe,
If you can carry the little bunker, the ball will roll a long way to the bottom of that hill.  I'm guessing a 220 yard carry results in a 265 yard drive, leaving 110 or so.  Of course, any sort of mishit and you've got 140-160 yards from the right side.  Or a poor hooking shot into the big left bunker makes bogey a good score.

John
A 220 drive wouldn't have carried the shoe bunker today, it would have been 20 yards short of it.  What time of year where you here?  368yards is a big hole into the prevailing wind..

[John Kirk]

Let's continue this just a bit longer, despite boring the rest of the group.

When I say 220 yards to carry the bunker, I mean the actual distance.  It's been a couple years since I played there, but I would guess the back edge of that bunker is about 145 from the center of the green, hence a 223 yard, slightly downhill carry from the back tee.  Into a 10 mph breeze, that requires a solid, low drive.  I tee it low, and really try to belt it.  If you miss the line by a few yards right, the ball will still funnel down to the best spot.

I've played Pacific Dunes about 20 times, and decided upon the aggressive strategy after 10 or so rounds.  I've succeeded 3-5 of the last 10 attempts, and though I may be exaggerating about the gap/pitching wedge approach, I still think it's a low 9 iron or pitching wedge.

I'm 48 years old, but still a reasonably strong player.  One of my younger friends is a ridiculously long hitter.  One time he and I were playing in a pro/am best ball down at Pacific Dunes.  On a calm morning, I saw him hit one 5 yards short of the green.  The guy is all over the place, but when he hits one, it's something to behold.  320 yard, low screamers.  I believe he made par.

I only call #2 a short par 4 in the context of this thread, a great hole under 400 yards.

[Andrew Mitchell]

I nominate the 2nd at Muirfield, at 347 yards.

The boundary wall down the left hand side of the fairway encourages you to drive up the right.  You are then faced with an approach to a right to left sloping green. I've pinched this photo from Philip Gawith's recent thread (apologies Philip ).


The flag on Philip's photo is to the left but when we played in the GCA event in March the flag was front right behind the bunker which cuts into the front right edge of the green, making it difficult to get close to the pin even when coming in with a nine iron or wedge.  The flag was of course easily accessible if you were prepared to flirt with the boundary wall down the left side of the fairway.

[Joe Bentham]

John  
First off if anyone is bored by this conversation they need to go back to work.  Secondly, I thought the point of the thread was to discuss short par4s, and that is what we're doing.  I'm fairly confident you've never played here between mid May through September.  Short par4s provide options off the tee for both distance and line, 8 months of the year 2 provides neither.  If you could carry the shoe bunker from the tips this afternoon, you might want to think about the champions tour in 2 years......

[Kalen Braley]

Joe is right on the money about this hole in the summer.

I didn't even try carrying that bunker.  One person in our group absolutly crushed his driver and only cleared it by 10 or so yards...

[John Kirk]

Yes, I've played the course many times during the summer.  For three straight years, I was part of a foursome that visited in early August.  We would generally play at 9 AM, but I've played Pacific in the summer afternoon several times.  Ahhhh...Pacific Dunes.  It's been awhile.

I'm unhappy about this exchange because I'm talking about my golf shot.  I'm as self-centered as the next guy, but I like to at least present a facade of humility.  I've told you three times that I like to try and bust it over the shoe bunker, and you've told me three different ways that you don't believe I can do it.  Fine.

Weather.com says the wind is howlling down there this afternoon, from the NNE at 22 mph with gusts to 28 mph.  Hole #2 plays to the NW, so this wind is into your face, quartering right to left.  I'm still going to try and hit a low bullet out there.  I'd aim maybe 20 yards right of the bunker and swing hard, hoping for a low liner that draws back left, and bounds around the shoe bunker down the hill.  I think there's little value in attempting to lay up short of the bunker, leaving a 160 yard shot over that ridge from an uphill lie.  That makes for a very difficult par.

#2 is a heroic hole, all or nothing.  There's not much strategy involved.  Aim directly at the shoe, or a few yards right, and try to hit it low and long.  It is under 400 yards as the thread suggests, and I consider it a great hole.

I'm not describing any more shots until the next time.

[Joe Bentham]

John
It isn't a matter of laying up short of the bunkers.  Into 20mph wind well struck drives don't carry the bunkers for the average player.  Maybe you bust it right by it, maybe you don't.  I don't care either way.  My contention is that 2 is a good hole, but not because its short.  368 might as well be 450 on most days.  Short par4s provide challenges other then length, obviously. The challenge for most people on most days with #2 is hitting 2 long, straight shots.  You can see the discrepancy........

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