[Mark Bourgeois]

Just change the par to 68 and you could hold a US Open there tommorrow.

Could finally turn us away from the insanity of "Augusta Syndrome," and plenty of room for a corporate village in park next door.

click here for story.

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

Thanks for the link.  That's one of the better articles on golf I've seen on the differences between the average golfer / golf course and the players and courses we see on TV.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Not only between the elite and average golfers of today, but between the golfers of today and those of a century ago, no?

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:

Even just 50 years ago.  I've read the USGA's interviews of some of the golfers back in that era (Byron Nelson and Mickey Wright and Tommy Bolt) and they all point out how much different the game was in those days, when the conditioning of most courses they played was below the standards of today's munis.

[John Kirk]

I've thought for a long time that golf courses with poor conditioning are hard to score on.  It's hard to make putts, and therefore the course scoring ratings tend to be too low.

[Peter Pallotta]

Yes, thanks Mark - a good and fun read.
I've forgotten what the tournament was called, but remember reading that it was played in the 50s on a course in the 'infield' of the Indianapolis motor speedway.  They played after the 500 was over, and tried to avoid the beer cans and leftover sandwiches as best they could.

Also reminded me of something Harvey Penick wrote about a fine player of his day who didn't adjust well to the improving maintenance/turf -- he'd learned to hit sharply down on the ball because of all the terrible lies they used to get, in the fairways that is.
Peter

[Mark Bourgeois]

Yes, thanks Mark - a good and fun read.
I've forgotten what the tournament was called, but remember reading that it was played in the 50s on a course in the 'infield' of the Indianapolis motor speedway.  They played after the 500 was over, and tried to avoid the beer cans and leftover sandwiches as best they could.

Oh yes! One of the organizers apologized to a competitor for having to hit through so many chicken bones and such, and the golfer said something like, "Hell for $100,000 we'd play it right down Main Street!"

Trying to remember where I read that and who said it; might have been Trevino.

Getting back to conditioning, for me one of the interesting angles was how it negated spin, be it out of the shaggy fairways, the patchy rough, or "stiff" sand traps.

The USGA is missing the point on the whole ball / distance thing, but maybe they've got a point on the U-grooves.

[Mark Bourgeois]

I found the reference -- it's better than Trevino!

Pete Dye

[Mark Bourgeois]

Also, just to give credit for the idea where it's due: Charles Slack in "Blue Fairways" was the first place I read a recommendation that the pros tee it up once a year on a totally beat-up muni.

His idea was to call it the "Greater Heartbreak Open."

His suggested venue: East Potomac, where "planes veer off just in time to land at National Airport, but if they had to they could probably land on one of the fairways without doing major damage."

He envisioned a unique challenge owing to the course's proximity to DCA, where the likes of Ernie Els wouldn't just have to stand up to the pressure of Davis Love but of "that 737 about to land in his back pocket!"

[Peter Pallotta]

Mark - you sent me looking as well. By the way, your memory is better than mine: how could I have forgotten the "we'll play up Main Street" line?

Pete Dye was the tournament chairman of the inaugural "500" Speedway Open, in the late 1950s. The tournament was played Thursday-Saturday, took race day off, and was completed on Monday. Mike Souchak spoke for all the pros when he said that he'd play up Main Street for that kind of money (as from Al Barkow's book, The History of the PGA Tour).

Here's another: Charles Price remebers playing the "Rio Grande Valley Fruit and Vegetable Open" on a course that had "something that wasn't grass".  Another time they played in Harlingen when it was 28 degrees and all the water hazards were frozen.

I found the 'stiff' sand traps interesting too. I assume he means very firm sand, spread pretty thin. Was glad to read it coming from a pro - THAT explains my lack of touch out of the bunkers

Peter  

[Mark Bourgeois]

Another time they played in Harlingen when it was 28 degrees and all the water hazards were frozen.

Not to mention Harlingen is just a two-day drive from Nicaragua!

I found the 'stiff' sand traps interesting too. I assume he means very firm sand, spread pretty thin. Was glad to read it coming from a pro - THAT explains my lack of touch out of the bunkers

Peter  

Yes, forget about spin. Hard-packed sand down to a depth of an inch or less.  You can't play a standard explosion shot; instead, you take a 60 degree wedge, square it up, then "slice" a bacon strip's worth of sand under the ball, taking care not to hit too close or too far.

(Oddly but effectively, before hitting one of these shots, I visualize a butcher using one of those slicing machines.  As weird as that is, what's even stranger is that I always say -- in my mind, not out loud (c'mon, I'm not that weird), "slice the prosciutto."  Why "prosciutto" on a course who's closest reference to pig anatomy is "fat back," I can never figure out. Hey, that's golf!)

Lest we discount the brilliance of East Potomac, two facts ought to elevate it:
1. Much like the great seaside links of Britain, East Potomac Golf Course is referred also, less formally, by its geographic location: Hains Point. (Of course this is often bastardized to "Heinous Point." But still.)
2. Designed by Walter Travis.

A shame, really, Tiger didn't choose it.

[Mike Benham]

Interesting article but did he carry his own bag?

Even though it was a PGA Pro playing a beat up muni I bet you would get the same opinions about the playing conditions from CC members and even some GCAers ...

[Ken Moum]

Lest we discount the brilliance of East Potomac, two facts ought to elevate it:
1. Much like the great seaside links of Britain, East Potomac Golf Course is referred also, less formally, by its geographic location: Hains Point. (Of course this is often bastardized to "Heinous Point." But still.)
2. Designed by Devereux Emmet.

From the East Potomac Web site:

The course is a Walter Travis design from the early 1900's. Often described as a Links style course, your most difficult round at East Potomac will come when the wind coming off the Potomac River is at its strongest.

Also:

East Potomac's Blue Course not only provides golfers with a challenging but fair golf course, but also provides some of Washington's greatest landmarks in the background. Most noticeable is the Washington Monument, visible from any location on the course. Other landmarks include Ronald Reagan National Airport, Fort McNair, the Naval War College, and the Jefferson Memorial.

"Challenging but fair" what more could a pro ask for?

Ken

[Mark Bourgeois]

oops...corrected.

Mike B., probably. But what about this quote from Pete Dye on grass length:
I played in the U.S. Open at Inverness in 1957. The greens were mowed at a quarter-inch, compared with less than an eighth of an inch today. But that didn't mean they weren't fast. You could drop a ball on the back of one of the greens and it would ride the grain all the way to the front of the green. On the other hand, if you were putting uphill into the grain, you had to hammer the ball to hit it 10 feet. Sidehill putts were very dicey. Grain was a wonderful component of green reading and judging how hard to hit the ball. I wish they would raise the mower heights a bit, so grain could be a factor again. At the very least, it would cut maintenance budgets in half so more people could afford to play.

Mark

[Adam Clayman]

Identifying the best player has it's caveats.

[Mike Hendren]

Hey boys, this has already been tried.  Mike Souchak finished 27 under in the 1955 Texas Open at Breckenridge Park, including the famous "Nine Holes In Twenty-Seven Strokes" immortalized by Herbert Warren Wind.  

These guys are good.  They could break par with a broom handle in a tobacco field.

Mike

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