Recycling and Reusing - Golf Courses

[Peter Pallotta]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the possible advantages and disadvantages of a golf-loving developer buying an existing (but struggling) course in a small market or far-flung destination and revitalizing it?  

By revitalizing it, I mean at least hiring a good architect to renovate/re-design it, and spending the time and money to market the course in a way that it hasn't before.

An untapped resource? More trouble than it's worth?

Thanks
Peter

[Don_Mahaffey]

Peter,
I believe the idea has merit, since many of the permitting hassles maybe much easier to overcome because you already have a golf course. And even though you may redo everything, some of the infrastructure like roads and power supply may already be in place which means less investment than a new project.

[Andy Troeger]

I played a course over the weekend that is essentially what you're talking about, called Sierra del Rio in Elephant Butte, NM (near Truth or Consequences, if that helps  )

Its somewhat of a resort area due to having the biggest body of water for miles. Most of the people don't go there for golf, but the course has been redone with only a few holes remaining (and those generally are just using the same corridors as previous holes). It doesn't open officially until August 1st I believe, but I got a sneak peak. Its a nice course and I would guess the rates will be pretty reasonable. There's no other course of note within an hours drive, so for better or worse its the only golf game in town. I hope it does well.

[Ally Mcintosh]

there is a resort in scotland called letham grange that is crying out for this.... scotland is very, very short of high-end resort venues and this one has some good land with what should be a lovely country house hotel already on site and two golf courses that could do a bit of redesign... needs a developer to pump the requisite money in... ideally situated just up the coast from carnoustie... inland stuff though...

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks - good thoughts.
As a way of lowering the initial investment, I WAS thinking about the re-use of the 'infrastructure,' including (though probably unlikely) some or all of the irrigation system. But for me that was tied with the possibility of an architect deciding to use/keep many of the holes as they were (except for greens) and maybe much of the routing. Then, since I'd tied those two together, I began to think the whole thing unlikely, i.e. no architect, I assume, would want to be hamstrung like that, and so maybe it would just be like starting from scratch, except for a bit of turf here and there.

BUT - I do think that a new and serious marketing effort  might help turn things around for a struggling course that's been renovated. And I also liked the idea that perhaps a 'non-descript' 310 yard Par 4 on the 'old course' might be turned,  with minimal changes and earth moving, into a terrific 'short Par 4', in the hands of the right architect; or that a very short Par 3 could have a new green built and become the 'Postage Stamp'....and all this for relatively low costs for the developer.

But I guess that might all be wishful thinking, or even not possible at all.

Peter  

[Joe Hancock]

Peter,

I'm not sure if this idea is relevant, but here goes:

Have you ever seen a business....let's use a restaurant for example...slowly struggle, then go under. The building changes hands, and someone opens a restaurant, because it makes sense (infrastructure). They do OK for a little while, but go away much quicker than the first attempt. Then the next guy comes in and tries it....no go. Then the building gets demolished, and an entirely new building gets built, with a new restaurant inside. They get tons of business, and it makes no sense to people like me looking at the situation.

Would that happen in this situation, or is it completely different? Do properties with histories of failure struggle without sweeping changes?

I like the premise, however.

Joe

p.s. I couldn't find a way to make an attempt at humor in this thread...but give me time....

[Peter Pallotta]

Joe - thanks.
That analogy strikes a chord; I HAVE seen that happen. Would it be any different with a golf course? That's THE question, I think. And this is what comes to mind as an answer: in general, no, it's not any different; but in the specific example I described, it might be.

I think that the local course I describe is probably struggling not because it is a 'bad' course, but because the local/surrounding community is not large enough (i.e. does not have enough golfers) to sustain it, or at least to sustain more than, say, 1 golf course, and our struggling course has been beaten to the No. 1 spot by another one (rightly or wrongly).  

Would making it a 'better' course change that situation? Maybe, but only if ALL agreed that it had indeed become better (but how likely is that?), and even then not for certain. BUT - if the golf-loving developer came into this scenario, his very attention and presence would change the 'rules of the game', I think.

What I mean is: once a developer (and his preferred architect) has bought into the idea that he might create a 'golfing destination' more cheaply and efficiently and effectively HERE, where there is at least an existing course and its infrastructure, instead of THERE, where there is nothing, then the whole scenario changes, and dramatically too. Because then the stakes don't have to be about winning the hearts and minds of the local/surrounding community; they can become about turning a local destination into a REGIONAL one, or even a NATIONAL one.

The 'intention' changes, the 'product' changes, the 'marketing' changes, the 'goals' change....might not different results follow?  I don't know, so counter-points are welcome.

Why I think this important is that it might mean a neat local course doesn't become a parking lot (though with a NEW  course the locals might be paying more than before, which is no good, except that they weren't playing it in the first place, so what do they expect?! ) Also, as I said, I really like the idea that average holes might have the potential to become very special ones, in the right hands.

Peter

By the way, Joe - please DO add some humour next time. I respect very much your experience and professional expertise, but I'm so used to the chuckles with you that when you don't provide them your post reads like an obituary

 

[Joe Hancock]

Ouch...an obituary?? Well, that does explain my tendencies as a thread killer.

In my defense, my post reads much funnier if you cut and paste it into rinkworks.com's "Jive" dialectizer......

 

[Peter Pallotta]

Joe
I tried it. You're right: your 'jive' talk about golf course architecture is very funny!

Actually, I also tried Cockney:

Have yer ever seen a business slowly struggle, right, and ffen go under. The buildin' changes 'ands, and some bloke opens a restaurant. They do not so bad for a wee wile, but go oray much quicker than the bloomin' first attempt, do wot guvnor! Then the bloomin' next lad comes in and tries it, no go. Cor blimey guv, would I lie to you?

And Elmer Fudd:

Wouwd that happen in this situation, ow is it compwetewy diffewent? Do pwopewties wif histowies of faiwuwe stwuggwe without sweeping changes?

Kills me.

Peter
And sorry about the obituary line; that WAS too much