Golf in Portugal

[paul cowley]

45 years ago ( ) I spent a week in Lisbon as a 20 year old and had the good fortune to be invited to play the Club de Golfe de Estoril (Estoril CC I guess).  It was a wild thing, with severe elevation changes, a 150' drop shot par 3, two driveable par 4s, one of which I drove to 3'  , and great caddies.

The Spanish pretender at the time, Juan Carlos, was in the foursome behind us.

I have no idea who designed this classic, probably Willie Park or somebody, but it was a lot of fun.   The clubhouse, as I recall, wasn't far from the magnificent casino at Estoril.

Maybe you can pull some strings and play there.  There are probably more modern tracks outside of town but I'll wager not many more fun.

You do get to sing in some interesting locales!

Regards,
Bill

Bill....interesting because I was there a few years later...'70  or so.

I had won a LARGE leather golf bag in a local club thing and needed to get out of upstate NY for the winter, so I packed all my clothes in the golf bag and got a cheap ticket to Lisbon.....looking for golf!

I tried to hitch rides to Cais Cais without much success...I was probably a pretty goofy image with the bag and all....so I rented a car.
Played Estoril and got invited to a dinner by a members daughter....and took the spikes out of my shoes to be acceptable.

I crept on down to the Algarve where I heard some new courses were happening....a slow but great ride as the almonds were blooming everywhere.
I ditched the car and trained to Sevilla...Madrid...and then ended spending a month or more in Paris.

A good golf trip...and a little outdated....but fun to remember.

[Jon Earl]

Tony

Here are some images of the courses in and around Vilamoura.

The 1st at Vila Sol. Notice how narrow the green is.



The narrow entrance to the par 4 3rd at Vila Sol.



The interesting par 5 6th at Vila Sol. Can be reached in 2 if you play to the edge of the water or flirt with the narrow landing area to the right of the water.



From behind the 6th green.


The par 3 7th. Large back to front slope on the green making it tricky for those that hit it long to take the water out of play.



The short par 4 dog-leg left 12th at Vila Sol.



The drop shot par 3 13th.



The 15th at Quinta Da Lago South.



The 1st tee and fairway at Penina.



From behind the 9th green at Penina.



The SI1 par 4 13th at Penina. Not obvious from this picture but there is water fronting the green...



... and here it is.



One of the few 'houses' that borders Penina to the left of the 12th.



How to build a hole up! The par 3 13th at Penina.



And its not bad either. You can't see from the photo but the water goes around the back of the green as well.



And another shot from nearer the green.



Two par 5s for the last 2 holes at Penina. Here is the 18th which takes you back up to the hotel. Another back to front sloping green.



The par 3 5th at Pinheiros Altos. Notice the crazy contours on the green.



The island green 17th at Pinheiros Altos.



Another view of the 17th.




The Old Course is the best that I've played in Vilamoura but unfortunately I don't have any pictures. I've never played San Lorenzo so I can't comment.

Vila Sol is a Donald Steele with plenty of interest. If you play there make sure get on the original 1-18. The newish 19-27 are not up to standard.

At Quinta Da Lago, the South course is the one to play. It's quite good fun. I found the North course to be a grind.

Pinheiros Altos (just over the road from Quinta) has been ruined by the addition of 18 new holes so I'm not sure if it's now possible to play the original routing which was quite enjoyable.

Penina (Cotton) is about 45 mins west of Vilamoura. It's the original Algarve course and well worth the trip. The first few holes are a bit ho-hum but it really picks up after that. There are a lot of red and yellow stakes but the water is not really 'in your face'. It's very walkable as well.

Make sure you take your HC certificate and try to get early tee times otherwise you could be in for a long round.


Jon

[Philip Gawith]

Of those three Tony I would play San Lorenzo and Quinta da Lago.

My favourite three courses played in Portugal are San Lorenzo, Oitavos (near Estoril) and Praia del Rey.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Tony

I think I commented when this thread began that I'd played San Lorenzo and the two courses at Quinta da Lago.

Of those three I'd definitely play San Lorenzo in preference to the two Quinta courses.

Rumour has it that my annual September Hackers trip this year is going to Vilamoura, so no doubt I'll be resurrecting this thread in due course!

[Matthew Hunt]

We didn't play Quinta de Laago but walking it I found the irrigation to be terrible. The rough and parts of the fairways were dying while in other sections you couldn't walk on the fairway for the moisture content. It seemed to have good true greens and wis a good course apart from this let down( My experiances could be down to very rare weather when I was in Portugal.)

[Ben Stephens]

Mark,

I have not been to Lisbon for 10 years. I have played Penha Longa's Atlantico course nr Sintra Mountains just a year after it opened. It is a good Trent Jones jr course. You have a fantastic view of Estoril racing track from the 11th tee. I did not like Quinta da Marinha much, but Oitavos looks a better bet.

Just South of Lisbon there is Troia Golf Course which my local pro at the time gave it rave reviews and said it was one of the hardest course he has played. Its a Robert Trent Jones Sr layout part links and part treelined. The other is the treelined Aroeira I (Frank Pennink) and II (Donald Steel). There is also Quinta do Peru.

North of Lisbon is Belas and Praia del Rey (already mentioned)

Have a look at this link to Courses in the Lisbon area http://www.portugalvirtual.pt/_golf/costadelisboa/index.html

[Steve Okula]

Mark,

I'm glad Ben mentioned Troia (R.T.Jones Sr., one of his best ones, better than Aroeira or Quinte de Peru, I think), definitely worth a visit if you're in Lisbon, as is Penha Longa, listed as a R.T. Jones Jr. course, but really designed by Kyle Philips, (of Kingsbarns and The Grove fame), who was his associate at the time.

I'm sorry I haven't yet been there myself, but I've heard great things about Praia do Rei (Cabell Robinson) from unrelated, but respected people.

In the Algarve, I'll vouch for San Lorenzo, but Penina is over-rated, and this is coming from me, who was GCS there in '96/7. I haven't seen the new Nicklaus course, but the old Quinta do Lago, Vilamoura and the rest are good courses but not all that special.

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Mark,

I go to Portugal at least a couple of times every year. My recommendation would be to stay in the Lisbon area, as the courses are better than in the Algarve region (and less populated).  In addition you can visit Lisbon, Sintra and Cascais, all worthwile.

I would play (in this particular order) Oitavos, Troia, Praia del Rei and Penha Longa. I haven't played the other courses around Lisbon, but no one has encouraged me to do so either....

Oitavos has a fantastic restaurant and a very nice, modern clubhouse. I don't believe you can eat in the terrace in this time of the year, which is a shame.

Regarding your stay, it all depends on what you prefer: Downtown Lisbon (NH Liberdade, Solar de Castelo), Cascais (Senhora da Guia) and Sintra (Penha Longa Hotel). All of the courses are within 1 hour drive (more for Troia, including a ferry) from either town.

Enjoy

[Aidan Bradley]

I have posted some images of Oitavos before, here are a few more. The village of Cascais is wonderful and yes, the food at the golf course restaurant is top notch.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Thank you all for your splendid advice. In the end it was a very short and crowded trip, but I did get to see a good deal of Lisbon. I had to go to San Lorenzo for a book I'm involved in. I was disappointed. Obviously the holes alongside the Ria Formosa and the lakeside 8th, 17th and 18th were fun, but it seemed to me that a lot of the design had been compromised to make it playable for the masses - and the masses were out in force. Unfortunately many of them were uncouth English who blasphemed their way round the course. It was a pitiful sight. The condition was poor (this was October) and the greens the slowest I have ever encountered. The staff were friendly and helpful (they knew why I was there).

I looked in on a whole host of other Algarve courses without playing them, but I walked part of most of them. What depressed me so much were the high-rise apartment blocks overlooking every course.

I then crossed to Valencia to revisit El Saler. Only 9 holes were open (the front nine) but I was able to walk the back nine and get a few decent photos (which will go on Frank Pont's excellent website one of these days, along with some of San Lorenzo). I thought there was so much more to this design (Arana) than any I saw on the Algarve. For some reason the pins on the front nine were all placed at the front of the greens (many of which have deceptive false fronts) and with play being from very forward tees the course was very short. But I have played it at full length in the past and these greens are huge, getting more interesting the further back on the green you go. There is a lot of stiff bunkering towards the rear of the greens. The bunkers are mostly huge, and you can get in some very difficult situations if you get too close to the back of one of these. Despite the sandy soil and being laid out over sand dunes beside the Mediterranean the turf is not links-like in any way, neither on the fairways nor on the greens. A recurring theme is driving towards a distant ridge (which I encountered at Hamburg Falkenstein shortly after) where something happens - it may be bunkering, a change in direction - but distance judgement to these ridges was deceptive. Some you could clear with more ease than you anticipated, others were much further away than they looked. Again the greens were very slow, but greens such as the 2nd and 6th still posed great questions for the putter. For me, it was a most rewarding visit.

That said, I later visited Falkenstein - now that IS a course. Such character!

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Mark,

They revamped all of El Saler's greens some months ago, that may explain why the pins were all in front locations and lack of speed. Forward tees are quite standard in Spain in greens-fee courses, to avoid slow play. Haven't been to El Saler for a couple of years, but maintenance has been traditionally very, very poor due to the fact that the course is owned by Spain's state owned hotel chain which does not understand how to manage a golf course.

A couple of notes on Arana and El Saler. When he finished the course, in 1968, he said it was the finest design he had ever done and that if anything was changed, he would not return. One of the fairway bunkers in the 6th was removed and Arana never returned to El Saler (the bunker was restored to its original location in the 80s).

Other courses from Arana not as good as El Saler, but Club de Campo in Madrid and Neguri in Bilbao are quite interesting (especially the latter, with many greens sloped front to back and good resistance to scoring despite its age). Shame people don't value his work that much.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Alfonso, It's good to find another friend of Arana on this site. The Parador was also being refurbished when I was there. My experience in the past was of poor maintenance at El Saler and the tees in particular were very shabby this time. But the design still shines through.

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Mark,

First, I am biased. I have been friends with the Arana family for many years.....

Although Arana has no international significance due to Spain's limited role in golf development, I have to say that what he did in the 60s in Spain is incredible. He was the key part in developing golf in Spain by building courses in the major areas. Most of his courses still are much better than anything which has been built years after (which is not too hard!!!!) and all of them have withstood the test of time very well (bear in mind that there were basically no courses in Spain before the 60s except for Puerta de Hierro and a couple of others!!!!!!).

Lots of common features in all of his courses:  splendid short par 4s, demanding par 3s and demanding driving (always requiring to move the ball around!!!). He always left a tree in the middle of the fairway in at least one of the holes.

It is a pity that we are not very respectful with his work over here (although El Saler still retains its original design) except for a couple of cases where real estate development has not influenced course changes. Neguri probably his second best effort after El Saler, but it does not get all the attention it deserves, as it is somewhat out of the typical golf destinations in Spain.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Alfonso,

Is it right (I think it was Cornish and Whitten who pointed it out) that Arana always had a par 3 as the 17th?

On which hole at El Saler did he retain a tree in the fairway? There are a couple guarding the entrance to the 13th green, and plenty along the edges of the fairways in strategic spots (behind which a wayward shot easily finishes), but I don't recall that there is one in mid-fairway that you have to negotiate from the tee. Am I wrong?   

Mark.

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Mark,

Yes, all of his courses originally had a par 3, 17th (now changed in a couple of them as a result of rerouting and changes - Guadalmina, Rio Real), probably as a result of his fondness for match play.

About the tree, I am reasonably young not to have seen his courses when built in the 60s and therefore I would say that most of his courses today lack that lone tree in the middle of a fairway - certainly El Saler does - probably as a result of annoyed golfers chopping them down at some point in time!!!!

Rgds,

[Andrew Mitchell]

Bumping this thread back up as I'm off to Portugal the week after next.

We are playing:
Pinheiros Altos
Vale do Lobo Royal
Pinhal
Quinta do Lago (South)
Vilamoura (Old)

Anyone care to comment on the merits or otherwise of these courses?   I've played Quinta South before but the others are new to me.

Tony, where did you play when you were there earlier this year?

[Paul Nash]

I went to Portugal for the first time this April - we stayed at Cascais and played 5 rounds in 4 days - I was disappointed with Quita do Peru considering it was ranked in the top 10 in the country at the time on the top 100 website (now 14) - it was scruffy, very poor bunker and green complex's in places etc - although it did get a lot better from the 12th. Penha longa was very nice but very hilly and they made you stick to the buggy paths, which is a pet hate. The biggest positive surprise was Aroeira - we played courses 1 and 2 for about £40 day ticket - rubbish clubhouse but very impressed with the courses, especially 2, the newer course. There are houses all round the courses but they didn't seem to intrude as much as on some courses. It all feels like a cross between Woburn and Wentworth, with more water. I was expecting a lot from Prai del Rei and was not disappointed - a lovely course, and the inland holes had a very linksey feel, much more than I was expecting. From what I have heard, golf is better value in this area than the Algarve, but I would love to play Monte Rei!

[James Boon]

Andrew,

It was almost 10 years ago that I went to Portugal. I played Vale de Lobo Royal a couple of times. It consists of 9 holes originally designed by Henry Cotton ( 1 to 3 then 13 to 18) and  the new 9 designed by Rocky Roquemore, apparently based on original drawings made by Sir Henry Cotton. It opened in 1997. I recall it as enjoyable, especially the famous par 3 16th along the cliff edge, but can't really remeber any details and not sure how it will be playing now...

Just in case, the Ocean course consists of the other original 18 holes designed by Cotton and is quite hilly and at times narrow but makes a good warm up for the Royal.

Also played San Lorenzo (not on your list though) and found it a good course, especially the par 4 6th. Some of the holes reminded me a bit of Woburn between the pines, but I didn't like the 18th, seemed to be trying a bit too hard to me? Didn't play it when I was there, but my brother talks favourably of Vilamoura Old.

Hope that helps?

Cheers,

James

[Jordan Caron]

Nice to see this thread again, I forgot about it!  I was there in late February and early March of this year and had a chance to play some wonderful tracks.  The first lag of the trip was in the Algarve where I took a group of members and had a wonderful experience.  We played in this order (8 days straight too!)

Quinta da Ria
Quinta da Cima
Villamoura Old
Vila Sol
San Lorenzo
Monte Rei
Quinta do Lago (North)
Quinta do Lago (South)


My favorites in this order
Villamoura Old - Nice use of the land here with lots of gentle dog legs and some slight elevation changes.  The umbrella pines really crowd in on play but to me, it felt like I was playing in San Francisco. 

San Lorenzo - I had heard so much about this place and for good reason.  Amazing setting that is forgiving off the tees with some standard greens.  The back nine is great until you hit 17 & 18 but I still enjoyed the course immensely. 

Quinta do Lago (North) - I was told that the South was the better of the two courses but I much preferred the less undulated North course.  It is slightly tighter but I enjoyed that as all the tee shots were very well framed.  However, the 18th is the worst hole on the course which always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Monte Rei - I will speak very highly of everything about this place but more so about the service, the facility and the setting.  Each hole is pretty much on it's own which means it's cart golf but still nice to play.  The bunkering was a little excessive throughout and I found that around the greens it was very penal for all players considering where the approach shots were coming in from.  Standard Nicklaus design with lots of dogleg rights and wide but shallow greens. 

I was told by a member of mine that while he was waiting before the round someone at the course said that Jack originally layed out the course back in mid 80's but the owner never got the project started until a few years ago.  Not sure if that's true but Monte Rei really seemed like some of the courses he desinged in the 80's.  Just about everyone I was with loved the place but I think they may have been blinded by the service levels and the really white sand.


Afterwards I rented a car on my own and drove up to Cascais (to play Oitavos) and Penache (to play Praia Del Ray).

Praia Del Rey really blew me away.  The water holes were good and I loved the small bowl shaped greens on this side.  However, the front side was what did it for me.  Holes 5-9 were my favorite on the whole trip and it really felt like I was playing in Denver in amongst the tall pines almost like Castle Pines without the elevation.  This was a total surprise for me as I was expecting mostly water holes especially since I played the back nine first.  However 2 of the par 5's were very disappointing which is inly bad thing I have to say about the place.  The clubhouse, including the men's locker room is beautiful with a nice modern touch and the view on the deck is world class.  I will most certainly never forgot my day at Praia D'el Rey despite the fact that I had played my worse golf every and it was my 10th round in a row.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

What I hated about the Algarve, when I finally got there last year, were the hideous concrete apartment blocks everywhere (I might as well have gone to Salford) and the abysmal behavious of most of the Brits I saw playing the courses. They were nothing more than vulgar louts. GGGGGRRRRRRRRR.....

[Tony_Muldoon]

Andrew, on your list I throughly enjoyed Villamoura Old (shortly to be renamed Oceanica Old?).  I felt it had something of the heathlans about it.  I seem to have forgotten my camera so can't show you the rather wacky 'signature' par 3.   I thought there were a lot of good holes but I particularly enjoyed those upto and around the turn.  I think you've been before and it does let things down that the approaches are so  often wetter thatn the fairway or the greens.

As this is a thread about the area I can also report on the 'Millenium'course which has interesting holes by Hawtree on good terrain and boring holes by Joe Lee on flat holes around a housing complex.  Avoid and pony up for another round on one of the good ones.


However I was knocked out byJoe Lee's San Lorenzo, will do a separate report.

What I hated about the Algarve, when I finally got there last year, were the hideous concrete apartment blocks everywhere (I might as well have gone to Salford) and the abysmal behavious of most of the Brits I saw playing the courses. They were nothing more than vulgar louts. GGGGGRRRRRRRRR.....

Mark have you been to the Costa Del Sol, I found the Algarve to be preferable?

I would alos like to point out I've checked the dates and I can PROVE I was not there when you were .

[Sean_A]

Nice to see this thread again, I forgot about it!  I was there in late February and early March of this year and had a chance to play some wonderful tracks.  The first lag of the trip was in the Algarve where I took a group of members and had a wonderful experience.  We played in this order (8 days straight too!)

Quinta da Ria
Quinta da Cima
Villamoura Old
Vila Sol
San Lorenzo
Monte Rei
Quinta do Lago (North)
Quinta do Lago (South)


My favorites in this order
Villamoura Old - Nice use of the land here with lots of gentle dog legs and some slight elevation changes.  The umbrella pines really crowd in on play but to me, it felt like I was playing in San Francisco. 

San Lorenzo - I had heard so much about this place and for good reason.  Amazing setting that is forgiving off the tees with some standard greens.  The back nine is great until you hit 17 & 18 but I still enjoyed the course immensely. 

Quinta do Lago (North) - I was told that the South was the better of the two courses but I much preferred the less undulated North course.  It is slightly tighter but I enjoyed that as all the tee shots were very well framed.  However, the 18th is the worst hole on the course which always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Monte Rei - I will speak very highly of everything about this place but more so about the service, the facility and the setting.  Each hole is pretty much on it's own which means it's cart golf but still nice to play.  The bunkering was a little excessive throughout and I found that around the greens it was very penal for all players considering where the approach shots were coming in from.  Standard Nicklaus design with lots of dogleg rights and wide but shallow greens. 

I was told by a member of mine that while he was waiting before the round someone at the course said that Jack originally layed out the course back in mid 80's but the owner never got the project started until a few years ago.  Not sure if that's true but Monte Rei really seemed like some of the courses he desinged in the 80's.  Just about everyone I was with loved the place but I think they may have been blinded by the service levels and the really white sand.


Afterwards I rented a car on my own and drove up to Cascais (to play Oitavos) and Penache (to play Praia Del Ray).

Praia Del Rey really blew me away.  The water holes were good and I loved the small bowl shaped greens on this side.  However, the front side was what did it for me.  Holes 5-9 were my favorite on the whole trip and it really felt like I was playing in Denver in amongst the tall pines almost like Castle Pines without the elevation.  This was a total surprise for me as I was expecting mostly water holes especially since I played the back nine first.  However 2 of the par 5's were very disappointing which is inly bad thing I have to say about the place.  The clubhouse, including the men's locker room is beautiful with a nice modern touch and the view on the deck is world class.  I will most certainly never forgot my day at Praia D'el Rey despite the fact that I had played my worse golf every and it was my 10th round in a row.

Jordan

I too was impressed with Praia del Rey, though not nearly to the extent you seemed to be.  I thought the course had great variety, used the land quite well - especially on the more inland holes, but often lacked in width. 

The 4th after a layup.


The very demanding 11th.


In addition to #4, the 12th was probably my favourite hole. 


This would make for a great bar come fish restaurant.


I'm not itching to get back to Praia del Rey, but I would like start there and explore north for a holiday!

Ciao

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Tony,

I do think that Algarve, on average, is better than Costa del Sol - better terrain and less housing around the golf courses. However, if you are looking for better layouts, they are to be found in Costa del Sol - Sotogrande, San Roque, Las Brisas, Santana, Valderrama, Rio Real, Guadalmina, Aloha.

Sean,

About Praia del Rey, I agree that the course can be cramped at times, especially in the first nine. It seems that the Portuguese are following all Spanish bad practices by completely surrounding the course with real estate - too close in many places. I especially liked the 4th and the short 14th, which I remember had a fantastic green.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Thanks to all for their responses.  I'm escaping the English rain tomorrow in search of some Portuguese sunshine.  I will report back upon my return.