Who amongst us, would DARE ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Most would agree that the waterless three, Newport, Fishers Island and Maidstone are a true pleasure to play, and that their architecture is outstanding.

Newport, Fishers Island and Maidstone do not have sprinkler systems for their fairways.

Who today, would dare design and build a golf course without a fairway irrigation system ?

Are today's golfers so spoiled that this is impractical, or impossible to do at a new club, or an existing one ?  

Is the amount of money needed to create and build a course so great that the risk of no fairway watering system is beyond consideration ?

[ed_getka]

Patrick,
 Do the listed courses not water, or is it that they simply don't have built in irrigation? I don't know enough about growing grass for golf courses, but I would think it would be possible to get grass to grow without built in irrigation. I cannot imagine anyone being able to get financing in place to put in a course without sprinklers.

[TEPaul]

Man, what a question! I sure can't imagine building a course today without a fairway irrigation system! This might be one for Ken Bakst himself although I don't have much doubt what the obvious answer would be!

Can you imagine the "grow in" today without a fairway irrigation system? What a dice throw with loaded dice that would be!

If somebody had that kind of guts or let's say insanity maybe it would be better to put one in for grow-in and then take it out again once things looked really established. But if you're going to do something like that why not save some money and leave it in and don't turn it on?

As cool as some of us might think Maidstone is after this severe drought I have no doubt that Hook Williams would have thrown a little tinkle on his fairways a good month or more ago anyway!

Unfortunately, the burn out in spots has apparently created controversy again in the club although I for one like the idea of feeling like I really am stepping back in time--and quite a bit of time, at that!

Although I think it is unusual and pretty neat to play it does look like it needs more than Hook and a hose--some spots look like they need a world class dermatologist!

But it's rained quite a lot down here in the last few days and I bet in Eastern LI too--and that grass will be back just like it always is!

[Jeff_Brauer]

I would not dare to build a course without fairway irrigation, because you almost always need it for grow in.  I have tried to get a course built to 1970's standards, where there are automatic irrigation heads, but the pipe capacity is such that you can only program the fairways to run every second or third night, without much success.

Modern irrigation designers fear lawsuits, or bad recommendations from supers for designing a system that doesn't allow them to water as much as they may need in the worst conditions.  Few will accept temporary browning as a condition of play. And in any case where commercial reality intrudes, having the large capacity just to speed grow in can be a necessity, as you use twice as much water for three months than you will ever use again.  Not getting maturation can cost a year in opening, making the addtional $ for a bigger system pale in cost comparison to the lost revenues.

[RJ_Daley]

The only one that would dare do it is some eccentric billionaire who doesn't have any profit motive for the course, and has land in an area that will produce enough precipitation to grow the grass in the first place.  I think Ross and Mac in their books mention some false starts due to insufficient precipitation in grow-in seasons.  I think many old courses first seeding or sprigging attempts didn't take in the first or second seasons they tried because they didn't get enough rain.  But, since it has been done, it can still be done, if you are not in a position of fearing the rath and consequences of mother nature can trough at you.

[John_Conley]

Pat:

Early discussion for the International course at Champions Gate was that it would not have irrigation.  It didn't end up like that.

[Brian Phillips]

I have just done it in Norway.  We also got one of the driest 3 weeks ever during seeding!!  Luckily I had put in manual hook up points. Two on each fairway.

We used lots of fescue with a little browntop bent.  The grass is now jumping through 2 weeks after final seeding.  It is a big risk not to have irrigation during grow in and we paid for it a little bit because we got hit by a huge rainstorm which washed out a fair amount of seed which would have germinated if we had irrigation.  Not much else I could do when the client wants it taken off the spec. because of money.

I am looking forward to seeing the fairways next year when it starts to dry up and look a slightly brown colour.  The roughs are seede with exactly the same grasses so some of the colours coming through will be really rustic looking.

Brian.

[RJ_Daley]

Brian, you are way cool!  Do you channel with some of the old dead archies?  I am betting that your having to work with some very constrained and modest budgets in the area that you do work, will make you nothing but a more clever and resourceful golf course designer in the future.  I admire your tenancity.

[Niels Lindeboom]

My homecourse in Holland hasn't got a fairway irrigation system. The course is three years old. Although grow-in has been slightly problematic on some fairways, all of them have really caught on now. It's a private course and is in really excellent condition right now. You get a lot of roll and approach shots really are difficult to stop, caused by the slick hard greens.

Holland get's quite a lot of rain in spring and autumn , so without fairway irrigation the course plays so differently throughout the season. Our longest par 4 is some 450 yards, and in summer it's a driver and wedge, while in spring it's probably driver/3iron due to no roll and a lot of wind.

I would say in general that in Europe a lot of courses are still build without fairway irrigation. Together with wind it provides so much variety in how the course plays, that I actually prefer it that way.

The only thing I've noticed is that criticism often comes for the weaker player who isn't able to really hit down on the ball. I'm a low handicapper and actually like really tight lies. Most of our members can't really play of them though

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

In fairness, all three courses are right on the water/ocean, and that may be a considerable factor.

Niels and Brian,

How close is your golf course to a large body of water/ocean ?

[Niels Lindeboom]

Patrick,

Almost all of Holland is actually below sealevel! plenty of water here everywhere.

[Ken_Cotner]

Brian,

With your grass just starting to come through, are there any concerns about upcoming cold weather?  How much more summer will you have in Norway?  Sorry if these are dumb questions -- I know zip about turf.

More importantly, how easy is it to get tickets for the big athletics meet, the Bislett Games?  

Ken

[W.H. Cosgrove]

For those without irrigation:  What is your cart situation?  Do you allow them?  Do you restrict them to cart paths?  
Do you think it would be possible to maintain quality turf with a lot of motorized traffic?

[Joel_Stewart]

I think Mike Keiser is going to try it at Sheep Ranch in Bandon.  The course has been there for at least a year and if all was known they are trying different grasses and ideas.  It wouldn't work in all parts of the country but may work in a cool climate like Bandon.

[TEPaul]

Joel:

Best not to talk about the Sheep Ranch--certainly not in public--not if you want to live a peaceful life anyway!

It's the only known NLE that never existed in the first place or the only existing course that'll never actaully open, however you want to look at it.

Anyhow, the official story is that it's only a place where some of Keiser's maintenance guys try out new mowers and mowing equipment!

[Ken_Cotner]

It's the only known NLE that never existed in the first place

Best line I've seen this month.  Thanks for the Friday afternoon laugh, Tom.

KC

[Ginger_Beer]

My home course, built in 1926 in upstate NY, only has a system for the greens.  So, while the fairways run really fast,
the green approaches are green and lush!

However, the irrigation pond is being enlarged, so we might possibly be getting a fairway system.

I just hope that the membership doesn't fall in love with the idea of having a green course where the ball doesn't run!

I get the indication that most of us would agree that the best idea is to give the grass just enough water to stay alive.

[SPDB1]

What can you tell me about the grasses these courses use? I know that Fishers uses a particularly resilient strand of bent (seaside?) combined with fescue, which seems to me to be a a combination that can withstand better than others.

[Paul Turner]

In a temperate climate like the UK's, I think that not having fairway irrigation isn't a big deal.  There's usually enough rain throughout the year and in the UK,  the players aren't concerned about brown fairways.

I'd actually love to live near a links which has no irrigation at all (are there any left?), and play it through the year.  I bet a course like Machrihanish almost never uses its greenside irrigation.

The last course I played which had no irrigation was Painswick.