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John_Conley

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The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« on: August 23, 2002, 10:08:52 PM »
     The BEST Golf Course You've NEVER Heard Of

Like being named "the best player never to be called the best player to win a Major", there's a chance of losing this award as soon as you earn it. However, if more people find out about Eau Claire G&CC in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, I think that's a good thing.  :)

The club itself is 101 years old, celebrating its Centennial last year when it hosted the Wisconsin Amateur. The golf course has been in existence - with some changes - since the Depression, making it about 70 years old. Designed by an architect you've never heard of, it still has a pedigree. Tom Vardon was the golf pro at White Bear Yacht Club (recently profiled on this site by the Naffer) near St. Paul and the brother of Harry Vardon of Vardon Grip fame. A Scotsman who was a golf pro designing courses on the side?  :o  Sounds like Donald Ross, and it isn't much of a stretch to think he could have had a full-blown career in design if he hadn't been so unfortunate to start that career in the midst of the Depression.

A Parkland course alongside a river, the site is blessed with hills big enough to be used for sledding in the winter and is bisected by a stream that never directly affects play. Like most great courses of its era, ECG&CC has better variety for hole lengths than Modern courses. While unique, comparable (remote, underheralded) courses may be found at Longmeadow (MA) or Teugega (Rome, NY), the latter of which I've yet to play.  :'(

A quick run through some of the best holes:

1. A strong par 4 of 431 yards to start. Great drives will run down a steep hill making for a much shorter approach.

3. 432 yards, dogleg right, this par 4 features a slightly downhill teeshot and uphill mid- to long-iron approach to a green guarded by a tree on the left.

4. Just 481 yards, this par 5 is almost impossibly tight through a passage and then uphill and right to a small green. Pulled tee shots wind up in a hazard while a stand of trees blocks pushes. (Photo of approach from about 190 yards.)

7. Arguably the best hole on the course, the 406 yarder plays severely downhill to a flat fairway, then up an incline to a dicey green. Doglegs slightly right and plays across a stream on the second.  Par 4. (Tee shot, approach, then look back to the tee from fairway.)

13. Christened the 25 hole because it is as easy to make birdie on as it is to double-bogey, at 134 yards it seems inconspicuous on the card. A little uphill to a plateau green that's twice as wide in back, misses on either side are repelled from the green site and become increasingly tough to chip up as you get further from the green and further down the hill.  Par 3. (I made the 5.  :-[)  (View from back of green.)14. A brute of a par 4, Vardon drew upon inspiration from a Scottish links when he placed the back tee slightly lower than the mound in front of it. You can't see much, but can infer from the cavernous look between the trees that the fairway is wide. The green on this 449 yard par 4 is perilously close to the stream on the right. (Approach of about 185 yards downhill.)

The only negatives I can find to point out are that a) the course finishes on two of their easier holes (more on this later), and b) parts of the property are a little over-treed. Conditions are terrific and the greens are exceptional. My gracious host, club pro Jim Julsrud[/i], spun around in a tidy 69 with his lone bogey on #15 where I made my only birdie. (Like Tommy Aaron boasting about all the home runs he and his brother combined for in their careers, I can talk about the day Julsrud and I partnered for 67 best-ball!   ;)  Hank Aaron actually began his professional baseball career as a minor leaguer in Eau Claire.)

Now about the club… it seems a little peculiar to someone from a more populated area. My lunch of Trout-on-Toast and cup of Clam Chowder ran just $5.50.   :o  Which brings me to the club's economics.  How much do you think the initiation is for a club with a golf course of this caliber? Guess again, you're way too high. Guess again, still too high.

Nope, it is just $750 to join with $300 per month dues.  ???  They are presently a little short on members and anticipate the initiation returning to $4,000 soon, but that's still only 1/20th the reported downstroke to join storied Interlachen CC less than two hours away. Because of these economics in a small Middle America town - one with another private club and SIX daily fee options - reason trumps tradition when making decisions for the club. One example is that three or four holes were moved away from the low-lying riverside to higher ground. Around 1980 it was deemed necessary to plant trees to better delineate the line of play on these new holes. Naturally these trees grew up together and now it is not only defined, but a little cluttered as well. (Almost sadly  :(, rounds are down from about 28,000 annually in the late 80s to more like 18,000 today.)

Another example is found in a change the club is undergoing in the next two years that will radically alter hole sequence. First, an additional par 3 is being built between the present 6th and 7th holes. Once completed, construction on a new clubhouse will commence on a site that includes the present 5th hole. When that is finished the club will sell the valuable land (on a major thoroughfare) where the obsolete clubhouse sits and move the entrance road to the other end of the property. Because of the value of the land being sold, the club will somehow pay for the cost of a their new clubhouse without going deep into pocket. Pretty hard running assessments through on a club that's letting in members for less than a grand! It all makes perfect financial sense, but I'm guessing you would never hear a similar project at Shinnecock. (Don't know if I can say that with certainty, though. Pebble Beach's addition of New #5 isn't an unfair comparison.)

(Construction has just started on the new par 3 - August 2002.)

Personally, I have no qualms with the changes that have been made or those just starting. However, some purists will no doubt object to them and clamor for a total restoration to the original Vardon design, even though I've never heard anyone singing the praises of Vardon like they may for Ross or Raynor.

Despite a reputation that doesn't extend to St. Paul to the West or Madison and Milwaukee to the East, Eau Claire is a delightful course that embodies low profile, Classic design philosophies. A stealth candidate for national recognition, it is entirely possible that the club goes another hundred years remaining undiscovered.  (For those wondering if it is worth a trip to Eau Claire to see the course, be aware that the Wild Ridge course at the Mill Run club is a terrific new daily-fee option you could also visit while in the area.)

EAU CLAIRE GOLF & COUNTRY CLUB
431, 144, 432, 481, 189, 372, 406, 518, 408
414, 204, 396, 134, 449, 371, 529, 335, 361

6574 yards, par 71


John Conley, August 2002
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »

John_Conley

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2002, 10:11:09 PM »
PICTURES BELOW PICTURES BELOW!
This will work much better when I figure out how to get the photos up.  In the meantime, feel free to link to my site and punch them up.

http://home.att.net/~daddyjack

Sorry about my ineptitude.  I tried.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:08 PM by -1 »

Joe Andriole

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2002, 05:30:59 AM »
John--thank you for a verywell writen,organized and informative post. I was certainly unaware of Eau Claire.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Will W

Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2002, 05:51:05 AM »
john - just trying to help out.


eau claire 7



eau claire 4



ec 14



ec 13 green



ec 7 approach



ec 7 tee

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Evan Fleisher

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2002, 06:06:47 AM »
John,

I hope you do not mind this "re-post", and hopefully the pictures came through as well! :D


The BEST Golf Course You've NEVER Heard Of...

Like being named "the best player never to be called the best player to win a Major", there's a chance of losing this award as soon as you earn it. However, if more people find out about Eau Claire G&CC in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, I think that's a good thing. :)  

The club itself is 101 years old, celebrating its Centennial last year when it hosted the Wisconsin Amateur. The golf course has been in existence - with some changes - since the Depression, making it about 70 years old. Designed by an architect you've never heard of, it still has a pedigree. Tom Vardon was the golf pro at White Bear Yacht Club (recently profiled on this site by the Naffer) near St. Paul and the brother of Harry Vardon of Vardon Grip fame. A Scotsman who was a golf pro designing courses on the side?

Sounds like Donald Ross, and it isn't much of a stretch to think he could have had a full-blown career in design if he hadn't been so unfortunate to start that career in the midst of the Depression.

A Parkland course alongside a river, the site is blessed with hills big enough to be used for sledding in the winter and is bisected by a stream that never directly affects play. Like most great courses of its era, ECG&CC has better variety for hole lengths than Modern courses. While unique, comparable (remote, underheralded) courses may be found at Longmeadow (MA) or Teugega (Rome, NY), the latter of which I've yet to play.

A quick run through some of the best holes:

1. A strong par 4 of 431 yards to start. Great drives will run down a steep hill making for a much shorter approach.

3. 432 yards, dogleg right, this par 4 features a slightly downhill teeshot and uphill mid- to long-iron approach to a green guarded by a tree on the left.

4. Just 481 yards, this par 5 is almost impossibly tight through a passage and then uphill and right to a small green. Pulled tee shots wind up in a hazard while a stand of trees blocks pushes. (Photo of approach from about 190 yards.)



7. Arguably the best hole on the course, the 406 yarder plays severely downhill to a flat fairway, then up an incline to a dicey green. Doglegs slightly right and plays across a stream on the second.  Par 4. (Tee shot, approach, then look back to the tee from fairway.)







13. Christened the 25 hole because it is as easy to make birdie on as it is to double-bogey, at 134 yards it seems inconspicuous on the card. A little uphill to a plateau green that's twice as wide in back, misses on either side are repelled from the green site and become increasingly tough to chip up as you get further from the green and further down the hill.  Par 3. (I made the 5!)  (View from back of green.)



14. A brute of a par 4, Vardon drew upon inspiration from a Scottish links when he placed the back tee slightly lower than the mound in front of it. You can't see much, but can infer from the cavernous look between the trees that the fairway is wide. The green on this 449 yard par 4 is perilously close to the stream on the right. (Approach of about 185 yards downhill.)



The only negatives I can find to point out are that... a) the course finishes on two of their easier holes (more on this later), and b) parts of the property are a little over-treed. Conditions are terrific and the greens are exceptional. My gracious host, club pro Jim Julsrud , spun around in a tidy 69 with his lone bogey on #15 where I made my only birdie. (Like Tommy Aaron boasting about all the home runs he and his brother combined for in their careers, I can talk about the day Julsrud and I partnered for 67 best-ball! Hank Aaron actually began his professional baseball career as a minor leaguer in Eau Claire.)

Now about the club? it seems a little peculiar to someone from a more populated area. My lunch of Trout-on-Toast and cup of Clam Chowder ran just $5.50.  Which brings me to the club's economics.  How much do you think the initiation is for a club with a golf course of this caliber? Guess again, you're way too high. Guess again, still too high.

Nope, it is just $750 to join with $300 per month dues.  They are presently a little short on members and anticipate the initiation returning to $4,000 soon, but that's still only 1/20th the reported downstroke to join storied Interlachen CC less than two hours away. Because of these economics in a small Middle America town - one with another private club and SIX daily fee options - reason trumps tradition when making decisions for the club. One example is that three or four holes were moved away from the low-lying riverside to higher ground. Around 1980 it was deemed necessary to plant trees to better delineate the line of play on these new holes. Naturally these trees grew up together and now it is not only defined, but a little cluttered as well. (Almost sadly, rounds are down from about 28,000 annually in the late 80s to more like 18,000 today.)

Another example is found in a change the club is undergoing in the next two years that will radically alter hole sequence. First, an additional par 3 is being built between the present 6th and 7th holes. Once completed, construction on a new clubhouse will commence on a site that includes the present 5th hole. When that is finished the club will sell the valuable land (on a major thoroughfare) where the obsolete clubhouse sits and move the entrance road to the other end of the property. Because of the value of the land being sold, the club will somehow pay for the cost of a their new clubhouse without going deep into pocket. Pretty hard running assessments through on a club that's letting in members for less than a grand! It all makes perfect financial sense, but I'm guessing you would never hear a similar project at Shinnecock. (Don't know if I can say that with certainty, though. Pebble Beach's addition of New #5 isn't an unfair comparison.)

(Construction has just started on the new par 3 - August 2002.)

Personally, I have no qualms with the changes that have been made or those just starting. However, some purists will no doubt object to them and clamor for a total restoration to the original Vardon design, even though I've never heard anyone singing the praises of Vardon like they may for Ross or Raynor.

Despite a reputation that doesn't extend to St. Paul to the West or Madison and Milwaukee to the East, Eau Claire is a delightful course that embodies low profile, Classic design philosophies. A stealth candidate for national recognition, it is entirely possible that the club goes another hundred years remaining undiscovered.  (For those wondering if it is worth a trip to Eau Claire to see the course, be aware that the Wild Ridge course at the Mill Run club is a terrific new daily-fee option you could also visit while in the area.)

EAU CLAIRE GOLF & COUNTRY CLUB
431, 144, 432, 481, 189, 372, 406, 518, 408
414, 204, 396, 134, 449, 371, 529, 335, 361

6574 yards, par 71


John Conley, August 2002
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

ed_getka

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2002, 07:00:36 AM »
John,
 Thanks for the post, and William and Evan thanks for the pix.
An interesting background and a course I will keep in mind when I'm in the area sometime.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

George Pazin

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2002, 07:25:44 AM »
Told ya somebody would step up & fix the pix! :)

Thanks for the writeup, John. Course looks way too understated to get much press. "Greens are exceptional" - condition-wise or fun-wise?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rick Shefchik

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2002, 07:48:01 AM »
Well, I've heard of it, but never played it -- not yet, anyway. It's just a little more than an hour from my house, so I may rectify that oversight this fall. Looks like a charmer. Thanks, John.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

George Pazin

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2002, 08:09:54 AM »
John -

Any idea how they are doing the new par 3? Did they hire an archie? Is it being done in-house? Probably too low profile for some big archie to donate his time & efforts!  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John_Conley

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2002, 08:59:45 PM »
Will & Evan:

Thanks SO much!!  I'll be moving down to the remedial message board on Golf Course Architecture since I obviously have no business here.

Dr. Andriole:

Thanks for the interest!  (For those who don't know, Joe Andriole of Orlando is one of GCA.com's most prolific lurkers.)

George P.:

I don't know what understated means.  The course has not received press since it is in a small town and designed by a relative unknown.  Ask any contestant in the 2001 Wisconsin Amateur or annual Tournament of Champions for the Chippewa Valley Tour and they can speak to the course's quality.  (Makes me wonder... how many more Eau Claires are out there?)

The greens are terrific, both from a maintenance standpoint and interest level.  Put this course 100 miles to the West and it (and its greens) stacks up well compared to Golden Valley, Interlachen, Minikahda, Minneapolis, North Oaks, Somerset, and White Bear.  I didn't take pictures specifically of the green contours, except on the treacherous 13th.  (I am not a photographer and think it is hard for me to capture contour.)

I have a picture of the new par 3 and will try to e-mail you.  If your e-mail isn't on the page be sure to post it.  I think the architect hired was Gill.  Or maybe that was the construction crew.  I asked Julsrud and he gave me the answer, I just don't recall.  It was a local design group and the preeminent construction guys in the area.

Special thanks to Evan for continuing to send me instructions so I can get the photos mastered!  ;)

Also, special thanks to Doug Sobieski.  Doug is another prolific lurker who told me, "You know these guys will ask questions about the green contours!"  (And he was right!!)

FYI:  On the 7th the pin was left and that side kind of falls off.  Because of the pace (fast) of the greens, putting was a real challenge.  (Pro Julsrud had to make one of his longest par putts here, despite having a 30' approach putt to start with.)

I will try to have some photo shots of the greens posted in the next few days.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Evan Fleisher

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2002, 10:07:47 PM »
John,

Glad to be of service!  Let me know when you are in the area next time...maybe we can get out and play a round together.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

guest

Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2002, 06:14:55 AM »
NEVER heard of any.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

George Pazin

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2002, 11:01:04 AM »
John -

Judging by your response, I think you know exactly what understated means.  :) Actually, what I meant was no water holes, no fountains, no dramatic carries. The course reminds me of many of the photos in Brad's book on Ross, as well as Michael Fay's book on Ross holes.

The one thing that struck me when looking at the photos was the lack of bunkering, both fairway & greenside.

Thanks for the additional photos.

Thought I'd told enough people by now, but I live in the 'Burgh, home to the future World Champion Pittsburgh Stillers (that's Pittsburghese for Steelers).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John_Conley

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2002, 11:13:32 AM »
George:

I didn't mean to be glib, but I really don't know what "understated" means to other people.  You are correct.  Little water, no fountains, minimal ancillary features.

I'm glad YOU were the one that said it looks "Ross-like".  (My word, not yours.)  That was my point.  Donald Ross was the most prolific design guy of his day, but hardly a sole practitioner.  How many other clubs were there to call Tom Vardon with the Depression in full swing?  Probably not many or not any.

Rick:  (715) 836-8423.  Set it up through Jim Julsrud before the snow flies!!  Play on a Sunday when the Packers are on TV and you probably have the place to yourself!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2002, 12:09:13 PM »
John, I mentioned the Eau Claire CC to a couple of our men's club guys who have played it in state am events.  They say it is nice but no where as good of a golf course as they think our Brown County GC is.  (no doubt there are some 'Homer' sentiments going on there).  Some golf magazine just had a write-up on Brown County as one of the best hidden gems to be found anywhere.  

I am sure ECCC is indeed a very nice course, as there are a number of really nice old gem courses in MI MN and WI that simply go unnoticed by the many folks that have the ability to play the whole country or world as if they were their pearls in their oysters to pluck.  Perhaps it is usefull that GCA participants try to bring more of these hidden gems to the discussion in the interest of expanding our tastes, knowledge and familiarity of alternatives to the usual suspects of the top rated courses.  

I must set a personal goal of getting my own web page up and running inorder to share pics of some of these other 'hidden gems' I am aware of and have photographed extensively. 8)  I do think our fellow GCA contributers appreciate this sort of thing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Phil_the_Author

Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2002, 06:23:14 AM »
John,

This is a very interesting post of yours that I must disagree with. The BEST course that I never heard of, that is until about a  month ago, & I am certain that very few on the site have heard of is Dean Creek Golf Club, located somewhere on the coast of Southern Georgia, & yes that is the closest that I can come to identifying its actual location.

The course was built by a man named, and this one is also hard to accept, Tom Morris. He purchased a piece of property very cheap from the federal government because it had become contaminated with chemicals & spent ammunition!

He had decided to build his own golf course as he puts it, a form of therapy after being unable to deal with the death of his father, a former navy officer he refers to as "The Captain". Evidently the only thing he really shared with him was a love of golf, his father being his only parent since his mother died when he was 6 years old.

Young Tom (who prefers to be called Tommy) was a good player, even playing golf for Georgia Southern for a year. When he was a sophomore in college his died suddenly of a heart attack. This affected him so badly that he gave up the game for over ten years.

One day while remembering how his father had talked to him about going into the business of golf architecture together he decided to build a course. His father had once said that, "True golf country is by the sea, where the soil is sandy and where the natural features of the land and the off-shore breezes make the game both challenging and interesting". This is understandable that he would feel this way as he learned to game of golf in the mid-60's while stationed in Scotland & playing at St. Andrews.

Anyway, Tommy Morris built Dean Creek, a CHAMPIONSHIP golf course in 1993, for less than $200,000! The course has numerous incredible holes and attributes. Among them is his "grounds crew". He bought his original "crew" of 30 and they have now multiplied to a large but manageable number. They are RABBITS! He did this because this is how the courses were maintained in "the good old days of Scottish golf" & as a result he only needs cut the fairways once or twice a year.

Before you think this is some sort of pitch & putt course on a beat-up old farm, the first hole of 420 yards, according to the author of the article where I learned of this magical place, has "so many hollows, mounds and hummocks, that it made me think immediately of St. Andrews." As he writes, "I kid you not, this is the closest thing I've seen in the United States to a championship British course!"

As of today the course has been played by LESS than 100 players. The reason for this is that even though it is a "public course" that anyone can play, it is so out of the way in the back woods of southern Georgia's Atlantic coast and has no signs pointing to it or any advertising of it that it is impossible to find.

The author of the article came across it when he GOT LOST one day while seeking directions after leaving the interstate he was driving on. He has not been able to locate it again!

Oh yes, everyone who plays the course, & the fee to play is for Tommy Morris to walk along with you & watch, has to sign his guest book of players. One of the latest entrees was Davis Love III.

Anyone interested in this course can read about it in the 2001 Edition of "Georgia's Golfing Link" magazine. The author of the article is Craig Dekshenieks who also is the publisher. On Saturday mornings from 7 to 9 am you can here him as he is one of the hosts of the "Craig & Dooley" golf show on 680AM radio, WCNN.

This is an amazing story & I am intending on trying to find it for myself this fall!  

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Conley

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2002, 07:52:24 AM »
Mr. Daley:

Minnesota has some nice courses like Owatonna, but Winona is probably the only one I'd put in the same league as Eau Claire.  Your course must be nice if those guys say that.  "My Home Course" feature pending!?!?

Phil:

Sure sounds like a course I'd play before I told anyone it was the best anything.  The purpose of my post was to showcase a course almost nobody here has played.  Case in point are Dick Daley and Rick Shefchik, who live as close to it as anyone.  The title of my thread is sensational enough that I think a reasonable person could realize it is my subjective opinion.  (After all, for some Sand Hills and Royal Portrush are the best courses THEY'VE never heard of and for others ECG&CC could never win the crown because they had heard of it.)

Less than 100 players have played this course in almost a decade?  You don't really expect me to believe that, do you?
(That's 10 a year, or less than one new person per month.)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Phil_the_Author

Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2002, 08:10:08 AM »
John,

I completely understand the purpose behind your post. I just felt that this was such a unique story & fit in with the title of your post that it deserved mentioning here.

Yes, it is true, less than 100 people had played this course when the author wrote of it. You can check with him about the veracity of the story & the course, that is why I mentioned his name, the publication & the radio golf show that he hosts. It is for real.

Phil
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Conley

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Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2002, 08:20:45 AM »
Phil:

Phil Hendry has a radio show too, but I don't believe any of his stuff.  I will not believe this course exists until I hear about it in a REPUTABLE publication and see pictures.

Sure, there may be such a course.  If you call a field with flags in it a golf course.  The description about incredible holes makes me ask, "Are they so good they are UNBELIEVABLE?"

This guy must be the world's worst businessman.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Phil_the_Author

Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2002, 08:22:47 AM »
Mr. Daley,

Excuse me for not seeing the humor in your response to my posting. Why do you insult both myself & the author of the article, Mr. Dekshenieks?

I found what I believe to be a fascinating true story that I felt should be shared with a group of people who profess to both love the game of golf & be students of golf course architecture.

I hope your comment was meant to be taken as humor, because if it is a serious statement I am insulted.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Phil_the_Author

Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2002, 08:30:27 AM »
John,

It is truly a shame that your heart is so hardened that you are such a sceptic.

Georgia's Golf ing Link magazine is a reputable magzine published by NEW SOUTH PUBLISHING in Atlanta, Georgia. Craig happens to be a very successful businessman & a man of honor.

Why not call and ask for an issue to be sent to you. The phone # is (770) 650-1102. I am certain that when you read the ENTIRE article & look at the PICTURES OF THE COURSE that are part of the article, you will be accepting of it as an amazing accomplishment by a man who loves the game.

Don't just criticize, investigate.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2002, 08:31:07 AM »
Phil the Author -

Don't know how long you've been around the site, but the first thing you must understand is that we're all skeptics to the nth degree... :)

I'm sure we'd all love this story to be true, but you have to agree, it sounds pretty unbelievable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2002, 08:38:56 AM »
Phil:

YOU get the magazine and YOU start a thread to tell us all about the place.  The burden of proof is not on me.  How can anyone NOT be skeptical of Phil the Author who can't spell very well?  (I know, I know, you have editors for that stuff.)

I'm willing to travel to play great courses, and this surely can't be too far away.  I can get to Hilton Head in 5 hours, so anything on the coast of Georgia has to be less than that.

Access, a video game publisher in Utah, makes the wildly successful "Links" game for PCs.  They digitized many famous courses for the early versions of the game.  At some point they decided a couple "fantasy" courses were in order.  One was situated in a remote part of Utah that is literally no more than an intersection and couple buildings.  The game made no mention that it wasn't a real course and provided a very descriptive narrative.

Some people actually asked around the town about the course!!  They took the time to go there!

(Sadly, I'm afraid I've hijacked my own thread about a wonderful-but-little-known course in Wisconsin.   :-[ )
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2002, 08:40:25 AM »

Quote
John,

It is truly a shame that your heart is so hardened that you are such a sceptic.
WHERE HAS ALL MY LOVE GONE!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Phil_the_Author

Re: The BEST Course You've NEVER Heard Of
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2002, 08:41:48 AM »
George,

Although I have made very few posts to the site (up til now though this thread is obviously going to change that dramatically), I have been reading the posts since early-May when a friend suggested that I might enjoy the site.

I can understand scepticism, it is just not in my nature to jump at things with an immediate scepticle attitude. That said, it also doesn't mean I naively believe everything written or said to me, I investigate whatever & whenever I can.

I have spoken to Mr. Dekshenieks on more than several occasions & feel that he wrote the truth in this article. I also stated that I intend a trip to try and locate it for myself. When I do I will gladly pass the info along (& I hope pictures as well).

I recommend you to call & ask him yourself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »