[Mike_Cirba]

On Tom Doak's "Modern Game" thread, I threw out an idea that I hoped would generate more discussion than it did.   So, never being one who died easily, I thought I'd start a new thread and see what action it generates.

Simply put, I suggested that rather than deal with the ball, or size of clubs, that the USGA could decree that only one club in the bag could be less than 13 degrees of loft (or, perhaps 11 degrees).

It seems to me that it wasn't so long ago that the average driver was 11.5 degrees, a three wood was 13, etc.  Somehow, almost overnight, we're seeing 8 degree with higher launch capabilities.  Is THIS really the heart of the incredible driving distances we're seeing on a routine basis??

So, I'll ask...would making this change be an easy and effective route to protecting both our existing courses as well as the strategy and interest in the game at the highest levels?

Is it enforceable?  Is it realistic?  It seem to me to be bullet-proof against lawsuits and the other type of unseemly and expensive actions that the USGA is afraid of.  

Not to mention, a higher tee shot would be more subject to the vagaries of the wind.  So, tell me where I'm OOMM  (out of my mind!)  

[Tommy Williamsen]

It is an intriguing idea, however, I suspect that somehow the launch angle could be adjusted.  Club makers just have gotten too good at overcoming obsticals through technology.

[Mark_Huxford]

Mike, it was my understanding that lofts on modern deep face drivers were actually increasing - ie becoming more lofted.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Mike,
I am not sure this would work. My friend who was on the long drive tour said he could not understand anyone playing with less than 9.5*. He had a 10*, and said that was pretty common.

Baddely was playing with a 10.5 last summer and killing the ball.

The long guys seem to favor it, with a few notable exceptions.

Also, while it would increase the presence of wind, it would also take out shot making even more. Guys would not hit draws or fades to shape to the hole, they would hit it high and hope it stopped where it landed. Most pros I know try to do that anyway, many feel sidespin is detrimental to determining where their ball will go.

Lastly, the ball would just adjust to wind with increased aerodynamics.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Agree with a few others who have said that many players are using the more lofted clubs now. Few really use anything below 9 degrees anymore although I use a 5.5 Ping Tech Driver.

The real issue -- how about limiting the total number of clubs you can use? Why is 14 the ultimate total? Why not phase the total from 14 to 10 over a period of years? Frank Thomas, the former USGA tech guy said this, and I believe it has merit. Let's bring back more shotmaking skills with less clubs instead of this wedge-specialty you see today. What do you think about that?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike, I hate to agree with Matt here:) but I have one of the new Ping SI 3 drivers and it's a 10 degree that looks like a 13.

Yesterday, stiff back and bum knee, and in horrible pain, I shot 79 with no birdies all because the driver (and the putter) I don't think I had a single drive that wasn't 10-15 yards further then my furthest drives with my old driver, and it was like automatic every hole. I'm not sure I'm proud of this either, especially since I was three over on the last three holes, and the score could have been even lower!

[Mike Benham]

... all because the driver (and the putter) I don't think I had a single drive that wasn't 10-15 yards further then my furthest drives with my old driver, and it was like automatic every hole.

Tommy -

Sounds like a relatively easy course with not much strategy off the tee, where did you play?    

Mike

[Mike_Cirba]

Ok, I guess I'll chock this one up to a half-baked idea cooked at midnight on Labor Day.  

Low degree or not, I seem to have duck-hooked into the deep stuff.   Thanks for your kind replies.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
Actually, it is a medicocre little Billy Bell Jr. course called La Mirada GC that is pretty easy to some degree, but at this very moment is playing the best it has since I started playing it some 24 years ago.

The course is situated on some Merion-like rolling hills, and it pains me to say that it could have produced a really great golf course if it had been in the right hands with the right directive. Still, it hosts over some 80,000 rounds a year or so I'm told, and when in Rome..............

[A.G._Crockett]

Would the length of the club be a more practical limitation?  If the club were measured from the center of the sole to the top of the grip, with a maximum number of around 43 inches?
Wouldn't that let the manufacturers pursue technology, but place reasonable limits on possible distance?

BTW, this would probably mean the end of the damnable long putter!

[Mark_Huxford]

A.G. I don't think we're going to see the games governing bodies move on a shaft limit any time soon, and if they do it will only be 47" - with that bolting horse already a speck on the horizon.

With the ball and implement "formula" currently carrying no practical restrictions on the total playing length of a club, manufacturers are today factoring in lengths of 45"+ into their designs. The length any finished club will play is probably the first thing settled upon in the design process because it has such a huge bearing on swingweight (the little girl and the elephant on the teeter totter) which in turn determines how heavy the other components of the club can be, which in turn affects the way they are designed. Add an extra half inch to any club and it moves down three swingweight points - D2 to D5 etc.

With a 47" limit the manufacturers would be largely unaffected because that is a ridiculously long golf club. A 44" limit would achieve a lot in my opinion but the OEMs would be up in arms about it because it would send so many of their new lines back to the drawing board.

I put my 1990 Taylor Made down next to a friends modern Ping driver on the first tee the other day. The difference in length was equivalent to the difference between my 2 iron and my 7 iron. The difference in head volume was almost double.

Everyone goes on about the ball. Maybe it's time to look at what the ball is being hit with?

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