Oakmont -- nothing less than "wow" indeed !

[George Pazin]

And from what I saw, Cabrera plays about as fast as anyone, 'cept Long John Daly when he's out of it.

 

I feel bad for Adam Scott, but Tiger didn't exactly play well, and he managed to shoot 145 for 2 days. Adam seems a little more like the kind of guy who, when he's on, he's a monster, when he's not, he's out of it. He doesn't seem like much of a grinder. He's high on my cheer-for list every week - all the Aussies are - yet I didn't expect much out of him coming into the week. Putting isn't exactly a strength, and Oakmont's greens are a test for even a great putter.

[Jim Nugent]

Mark -- Jack Nicklaus missed the cut in the 1963 U.S. Open.  Problem with the course?  

Even the best players miss cuts from time to time.  Even in majors. Though Scott is one of the best, he certainly is not the best player.  And JVB showed his stats this week.  Scott played terribly: 87th in the field in fairways hit, and 149th in GIR, with just 33%.  Only three golfers hit fewer greens.  Scott fully earned his quick departure.  

[Matt_Ward]

Mark F:

The reason Adam Scott is that MANY over is that the lad can't hit fairways and seems to misplay far too many approach shots. One other thing -- no doubt he has tremendous talent -- but his overall major record is not exactly near the top of the charts thus far.

Nothing more -- nothing less than that.

John VB:

Agree with your take on what it takes to play Oakmont. well.

[Ian Dalzell]

Matt,
An interesting point to note, the fairways at Oakmont are almost as wide as those at Portrush

[Geoffrey Childs]

Ernie Els on Oakmont today in an interview

"If you are playing on a high level this is as good as it gets"

Isn't that what major championship golf is about?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Matt,
What I have enjoyed seeing is bunkers that look, for lack of a better description, totally 'real', no TuTus around the edges and no amoeba-like shapes.

   

[Jonathan Cummings]

It is simply a 10.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

It is a 10 to me too.

[Andy Troeger]

One thing I really like is the variety of hole lengths, it seems like there's a little bit of everything in that regard. Its interesting that the 8th hole is almost as long as a couple of the short par fours

One of the announcers I think mentioned that #2 played harder with the tees up to entice the players to go for it. That's good to see.

[Matt_Ward]

Ian:

Great comment -- but a bit off.

I've seen Oakmont up close and personal for the balance of the championship and there's sufficient room and you also have the intermediate cut which affords playability.

At Dunluce you are stuck with 30-40 mph blowing and the close proximity of the H-A-Y when I was there did not allow for anything more than a SW out.

Oakmont has scaled the rough accordingly and the player(s) have to decide how aggressive a line of attack they wish to play. There's room -- what's narrow is the space permitting air down their throats as we see today's concluding round.

Jim K:

Agreed.

Oakmont does provide an opportunity to escape with your ego but it won't ever provide the easy play when carlessness is executed.

[Ian Dalzell]

Matt, with all due respect to an older and wiser gentleman such as yourself, I disagree.  If the best players in the world are hitting fairway woods and irons on #9 at 477 yards, and other similar holes, it must be assumed they cannot hit the fairway any other way.  

I have seen Oakmont first hand myself, and it is tight - very tight.  Look how many fairways the top players in the world are hitting this week.  When the British Senior Open is played at RPGC they hit a similar # of fairways, even with the 30-40 mph winds and the H-A-Y to contend with.

This is the ultimate driving test, and I think Portrush could assume a similar position relative to driving.  I am not suggesting Portrush is in the same breath as Oakmont, just stating that they are similar in driving zones and examination with the big stick.  I am also not suggesting you agree with me, because that could never happen

Happy Fathers Day

[Matt_Ward]

Ian:

With even greater respect -- you need to account for Open pressure when you calculate the entire equation. Keep in mind the total length Oakmont plays when compared to Dunluce. The guys who decided to hit driver often took huge risks -- needless in many ways -- because they were so off-line. I had the pleasure in watching many of them firsthand and it became painfully obvious that their accuracy is a good bit off -- see Phil and Sergio as two prime candidates that come quickly to mind. In some cases, fairways could have been 40 yards across and they still would have missed them.

The issue of playability is certainly something to consider. I can easily make a case that the USGA moved away - albeit not by a huge degree -- from the 1/2 shot penalty that they believe rough should play. I like the graduated element of rough -- especially aroung the short par-4's because of the risk involved with driving such holes.

One other note -- at Oakmont graduated rough was added to the mix on a few holes of note. During my visit to Dunluce the issues was merely the fairway -- a tiny strip of intermediate rough and then HAY FIELDS.

Dunluce is such a grand course that it need not have to play in such a draconian fashion. Let's just say we do agree -- it's just a matter of degree.

[Doug Siebert]

Matt,

How is what you describe at Dunluce any different from Muirfield or Carnoustie?

[Matt_Ward]

Doug:

I have no issue with rough being included in a major in order to bolster the need for accuracy - given the monster 460cc heads you see today and the considerable clout that the boys can hit it routinely.

I credit the USGA / re: Mike Davis for instituting the graduated rough concept. I do believe that more of an emphasis on the 1/2 shot penalty aspect needs to be promoted when drives do not finish that far from the boudary lines of the fairway. In sum - a proportionate set-up that takes into account how bad the shot was played. If players hit the ball into the next county then the penalty can be as high as HAY if need be.

The issue is one of scale and sensibility. Oakmont was set-up rather well although the rough aspect needs to be reviewed because eliminating or downsizing the role of recovery takes away an aspect of the game that needs to be included. Frankly, I don't like seeing people chop it out sideways with SW's most of the time. But, keep in mind, I do favor a proportionate scheme where the actual length of the hole is examined and how appropriate cuts for rough need to be fostered. One size doesn't fit all.

What Carnoustie did in '99 was to have HAY literally within a step or two of the actual fairway. This "either or" approach was assinine and when you set-up courses in such an inane manner it's far more likely you will get fluke winners -- Paul Lawrie is akin to Sam Parks winning the US Open at Oakmont many years ago.

I hope this explanation has helped your understanding of my thoughts on this matter.

[Kalen Braley]

In sum - a proportionate set-up that takes into account how bad the shot was played. If players hit the ball into the next county then the penalty can be as high as HAY if need be.

What Carnoustie did in '99 was to have HAY literally within a step or two of the actual fairway. This "either or" approach was assinine and when you set-up courses in such an inane manner it's far more likely you will get fluke winners -- Paul Lawrie is akin to Sam Parks winning the US Open at Oakmont many years ago.

This was my thoughts/feelings as well when watching the 99 Open.  The fairways were so narrow, that luck was a bigger component of finding the fairway over skill.

Oakmont seemed to be wider in this past open and that first cut allowed players to land in the fairway, run a bit, and catch that first cut instead of rolling into the deep stuff.

[Doug Siebert]

Matt,

I'm talking about the normal setup of these courses, not the '99 Open.  You said Dunluce was wrong for being so severe.  What about Muirfield?  When I played there in 2001 the rough was taller than it was for the Open, and those I spoke to said it was always like that and the rough was cut down when they held the Open there.  It was 4 FEET high just past the fairway bunker on the left of #2, it was pure luck to find a ball there, and nearly impossible just to hit it out of that into the more reasonable and less juicy knee high stuff that was typical there.

That just the way some of those links courses play.  Hell, go play the municipal courses in Troon.  At least in 1991 when I played several of those courses the gorse literally choked both sides of the fairway on some holes, there may as well have been bottomless chasms there because even if you saw exactly where your ball went in and could see it, it would be impossible to retrieve it, let alone play it.

So if Oakmont is making things a bit difficult on the pros who hit drives offline and in some (but most certainly not even a majority of) cases they had to hit a SW, and once in a while they got in that ditch and really had problems, I'm sorry I feel no sympathy for them.  Oakmont has removed its trees and decided to go back to its links roots.  Well, not all links courses are as wide open for wild shots as TOC or Turnberry.

[Matt_Ward]

Doug:

In my lone visit to Muirfield a number of years ago I did not encounter the conditions you indicated. Suffice to say -- I do not favor courses -- whether they are here or across the pond -- that believe having HAY LIKE conditions a few paces from the edge of the fairway bolsters the actual design of the course. I don't care if it's Dunluce, Troon or any other "big name" layout.

In fact, I can easily make such a case that the inclusion of such rough actually takes away from the design as self induced prop.

I really enjoyed Dunluce -- my main comments were that the layout I played was overdependent upon heavy rough choking the VERY EDGE of the fairways.

Recovery is part and parcel of the game. You need to be proportionate in the application of such rough because then you reward / penalize in direct relation to the degree of skill demonstrated by the player with each shot.

For example, on Saturday's 3rd round at the US Open, Angel C hit wide left on #12 and was forced to hack it back to the fairway. Fair game in my book. Ditto the nature of higher rough on the short holes where driving the green was a possibility.

The issue with a few of the links courses I played is that width needs to be included in order to ADD to the playability and design features. This is especially so when being experienced by the every day play one gets with those not at the skill level of US Open participants.

[Forrest Richardson]

I have read Matt's post and I will offer, first, my agreement. Secondly, I will offer that it is refreshing to come across a post that encourages discussion from a positive starting point — and is not trival about smoking or other distant topics. How many great posts there could be here is we contributed with something good to say and challenged eack other with thoughtful responses.