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NAF

Are #16 and #17 at Cypress Point Cape Holes?
« on: September 01, 2002, 01:46:52 PM »
I was looking and Cornish and Graves' new book Classic Golf Hole Design.  It looks very interesting and has a treasure trove of info on classic holes (redan, short, cape etc)as well as descriptions and a glossary of where all of these holes are.

One thing I found interesting was they characterized the 16th and 17th at Cypress Point as Cape holes.  Now I can see how the approach to 17 as well as the drive might be cape-esque but can a par 3 be a Cape hole?

Perhaps George Bahto can comment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Geprge Bahto

Re: Are #16 and #17 at Cypress Point Cape Holes?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2002, 02:24:01 PM »
NAF: I don't have their book but, like most others, they reference the diagonal carry as the main NAF: I don't have their book but, like most others, they reference the diagonal carry as the main charactaristic of THEIR idea of a "cape" hole.  

This one of a number articles of late talking about the diagonal as "cape"

We've run a couple of fairly lengthy threads on this as I'm sure you've seen.

I'm not sure anyone has referred a cape hole without bringing in the diagonal drive before we recently got into the details of these "cape hole" discussions - again in the Macdonald context of his "inventing" the Cape hole as Nationals 14th.

I quoted an article he and hi son-in-law wrote in the 'teens in which he described it all in detail. (he also wrote articles on Redan and other strategies I detail in my book)

If those greens at CP would be more out into water, or a plateau, or shelf, without so much surrounding terrain, then i would say, "yes, Cape" ..... again in my humble opinion.

Others may say something else which is fine.

If an architect of today would consider the "cape strategy" as the diagonal it's OK by me. I only speak what Macdonald considered a strategy he "invented" when he built 14-National.

He certainly didn't "invent" the use of a diagonal carry over  a hazard as a strategy - must be tons of them back in the old courses of the British Isles when he was scouting out which "best holes" he would model while buildingin his "Ideal Course." of their idea of a "cape" hole.  

We've run a couple of fairly lengthy threads on this as I'm sure you've seen.

I'm not sure anyone has referred a cape hole without bringing in the diagonal drive before we recently got into the details of these "cape hole" discussions - again in the Macdonald context of his "inventing" the Cape hole as Nationals 14th.

I quoted an article he and hi son-in-law wrote in the 'teens in which he described it all in detail. (he also wrote articles on Redan and other strategies I detail in my book)

If those greens at CP would be more out into water, or a plateau, or shelf, without so much surrounding terrain, then i would say, "yes, Cape" ..... again in my humble opinion.

Others may say something else which is fine.

If an architect of today would consider the "cape strategy" as the diagonal it's OK by me. I only speak what Macdonald considered a strategy he "invented" when he built 14-National.

He certainly didn't "invent" the use of a diagonal carry over  a hazard as a strategy - must have been many of them back in the old courses of the British Isles when he was scouting out which "best holes" he would model when building his "Ideal Course", which he originally called The National Golf COURSE of America  - ("National" not in the context of today where it seems every state has a "national" course (duh) - his founders and membership was indeed "national" in scope - founders from all over the country." The Lido membership concept was one step beyond that - it was meant to be International).

NAF - more as needed.  regards

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »