Has any Great GCA not.......

[Matthew Hunt]

Has any Great GCA not studied the great Scottish links?

Doak and Dye are Modern GCA's who were influenced by the Links though nearly every new course is "inspired by the scottish links".

[Garland Bayley]

Here's a little Irish research for you Matthew. Did Eddie Hackett study the Scottish Links or did he learn enough in Ireland to do courses such as Carne?

[Matthew Hunt]

Any self respecting Irishman will tell you that our links are much better than Scotland's

[David_Tepper]

Matthew -

I don't know whether you would consider Jack Nicklaus to be a "Great GCA" (or even a GCA at all!), but I doubt he has spent much time studying any Scottish (or GBI) links that have not hosted a British Open. For that matter, Nicklaus has apparently not spent much time on courses in the US that have not hosted tournaments in which he has played. It is well known he plays little or no social or recreational golf.

DT      

[Jon Spaulding]

According to "The Captain", there is no evidence that George Thomas ever made it to the isles.

[David Stamm]

According to "The Captain", there is no evidence that George Thomas ever made it to the isles.

And not to steal Wayne's thunder, I don't think Flynn did as well.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I am not sure a study of links courses alone means as much as a broader study of courses in the Uk and Ireland. That being said many professionals whether GCA or other that do not have the resources to study abroad have found a way to gain the knowledge and experiece to be very good and in some caes at the top of their profession. I think desire and hard work are more important than viewing and study of any set of links courses.

[wsmorrison]

David,

You're correct.  Flynn never visited Europe.  In fact, the only country he ever visited outside the USA was Cuba, a place he was very fond of.

However, Flynn's "foster father," Hugh Wilson did study the golf courses in the UK and I'm sure they had many conversations about the home of golf.  Flynn was familiar with Crump and Tillinghast and probably others that studied the courses in Scotland.  Yet I think it is pretty clear that Flynn was interested in developing his own interpretation of golf design, what he called modern design.  He was a transition architect between the classic and modern styles.  Specific shot testing and aerial demands (along with other Philadelphia School architects) were a part of a new, American version of golf architecture.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Did George Thomas ever travel overseas and study the wonderful courses of Great Britain?

If not, does anyone know where he developed his strategic theories?   I should probably just go and re-read "The Captain", but to some extent, GT took Mackenzie's theories and expanded on them.

What was the source of his education?

[Tom_Doak]

David T:

I don't think Jack Nicklaus should be part of this thread.  He played in the Walker Cup at Muirfield when he was 19, and won two Opens before he ever designed a course.  You are right that he hasn't seen a lot of links courses outside the Open rota (and the qualifying courses -- even Jack had to qualify back in the sixties), but he did learn about links golf.

Seth Raynor never went overseas, even though all his templates were based on overseas models which he was taught by C.B.

Bill Coore has been to the UK several times by now, but I don't believe he had been over when I first met him, and by then he already had the foundation of his style.

[David Stamm]

However, Flynn's "foster father," Hugh Wilson did study the golf courses in the UK and I'm sure they had many conversations about the home of golf.  

Ah, but where and when is the question my friend Wayne!

[Phil_the_Author]

Tilly went there at least three and possibly as many as six times between 1895 and 1901...

[Rich Goodale]

Old Tom Morris didn't study them, he created them.

[Jon Spaulding]

Did George Thomas ever travel overseas and study the wonderful courses of Great Britain?

If not, does anyone know where he developed his strategic theories?   I should probably just go and re-read "The Captain", but to some extent, GT took Mackenzie's theories and expanded on them.

What was the source of his education?

The book speculates that he visited the isles after his discharge from the military in WW1; but then states that there is no evidence of a visit. It alludes that the source of his education was the Philly/Pine Valley crowd.

I would surmise that he learned something from Fowler as he was in charge of constructing Fowler's 36 holes @ LACC in the early 20's.

What is the basis for the statement on MacKenzie?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Old Tom Morris didn't study them, he created them.

Shouldn't he have studied the Dutch? Or would that be Old-Old Tom Morris?

[RJ_Daley]

Is it time yet to check who booked passage on the steam ships, and when?