News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2007, 08:04:45 PM »
Looks like Matt is poised to make the cut and advance to the match play with a 154.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2007, 08:13:11 PM »
Looks like Matt is poised to make the cut and advance to the match play with a 154.

Wow ... A 10-way playoff for the last 5 spots ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2007, 08:16:14 PM »
I've played with Todd Strible, whose tied for 18th. Fantastic player. He's a member at Pauma Valley and is the club champ there. Very nice guy as well. Hang in there Matt!
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

peter_mcknight

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2007, 08:39:25 PM »
It's really too bad that we can't bottle up some of that weather condition and save it for the 3d week of June 2010 and use it on those who would appreciate it even more!  Oh, I'd like to use the same conditions in San Francisco in 2012.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2007, 11:14:18 PM »
Now the wind today did blow and the scores soared along with it.

Our own Matt Cohn made the cut and congratulations to him for a gutsy four over today.

I do hope that Matt, Andrew and David Ober come on and tell us what it was like out there today.

We played as the first foursome after the tail end of the Cal Am on the Shore and I was quite proud of my 95.

Go to NCGA.org for all of the scores.


Bob










Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2007, 11:27:16 PM »
For those unfamiliar with this web site, quite a great picture at the head of the page.  A couple of friends qualified for match play and said that the wind was very much affecting putts.  The wind exposed holes were very difficult to club because of constant gusting on top of a steady breeze.

AndrewB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2007, 12:03:14 AM »
Unfortunately Matt did not advance through the playoff, but I'll let him tell you all about that.  As caddy for that one hole, I of course take all the blame.

The wind was strong (by my standards) today, but not quite as strong as yesterday.  Said in a more informative way, I was adding between 30-40 yards for shots that were directly into the wind.  I'll repeat what I said yesterday, because it's true and because I don't want to be interpreted as complaining: it was loads of fun.

On the Dunes, the windy holes were 10, the drive on 11, the second half of 13, 14, 15, and even 16 and 17 somewhat.  Bob, I think the second half of 11 and 12 are protected from some of the wind and that may have made the wind seem less strong when you were there.   However, I also don't doubt that your definition of a strong wind and mine are quite different, given that you play out at MPCC so often.  I'm not surprised to hear that wind of this strength is common on the holes right near the coast.

On the Shore, the wind started getting much stronger when we got to the sixth tee.  The conditions became more difficult heading into the wind on nine through 13, but it got a bit easier once we turned back on 14.  The wind was still very much a factor all the way to my approach shot into 18.

The pace of play got painfully slow on par fives and during the windiest stretches.  When I got to the 14th green of the Dunes course yesterday, we were the third group on the tee.  We waited a long time on nine and 13 also.  The pace was again slow today  but there were not as many lengthy waits as yesterday.  The wind really caused play to grind to a halt because players were hitting more shots into long grass (search time) and taking longer to figure out how to play shots.  For reference, the CGA allotted 4:48 for us all to finish the round in threesomes under the NCGA pace of play policy (which nicely turns unbearable six hour rounds into barely tolerable five hour rounds).  I think we came pretty close to that time both days, but I don't think we met it (because of waiting on the groups in front and our own troubles searching for balls).

Many thanks to the MPCC membership for hosting the event.  I think all the players felt lucky to get to play these wonderful courses and we really were treated as well as anyone could hope for.  Getting to play the courses was definitely a special experience for me (despite my play), and even more given the normal windy conditions.

I would not be at all surprised to see Blake Trimble go on to win this event or many others down the road.  I played with him both days and he hits it a mile and has a great short game.  As an example, today 17 of the Shore was playing downwind.  I hit a solid driver and that left me with 141 to the hole; Blake hit a driver and was left with 55 to the hole.  On 18 I hit a good cut driver and he outdrove me with his Titleist hybrid.  I'm not long by anyone's standards, but even still.  He and his Dad are both very nice folks, too.

That's all I can think of for now ...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 10:31:12 AM by Andrew Biggadike »
"I think I have landed on something pretty fine."

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2007, 12:18:01 AM »
Which brings us back to Jose, the chef at MPCC, who followed up his 71 with a 78 for a T5 and berth in the match play.

I understand he was even par until an errant drive landed him in the cabbage and subsequent approach fell short into the bunker with a fried egg lie.

 :P

Tom

Rich Goodale

Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2007, 02:47:17 AM »
Are we sure that Jose isn't Steven Seagal undercover?

Jim Nugent

Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2007, 03:21:04 AM »
I read that Jose, the excellent golfer/chef, did not start playing golf till he was 21.  Makes me wonder how good he could have been, had he started at, say, 10...

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2007, 03:43:02 AM »
Hello All,

I meant to post during the tournament but unfortunately $49 hotel rooms don't come with internet connections.

I appreciate all of your good wishes and I'm awfully disappointed that I didn't make it into match play. I had plenty of chances, and the bounces were going my way, too. I really don't have anything to blame. I just made a handful of bad mistakes - e.g., bogeying two downwind par 5's from inside of 250 yards. My run ended with a 3-putt on the first playoff hole.

I'll try to add a few thoughts on relevant topics.

The speed of the greens: I've sat here for ten minutes at a loss for words. If they started at 13.5 early Monday morning, I wonder what they finished at? If you've never putted 13.5, it feels twice as fast as an 11 and 3 times as fast as a 9. I know it's not, but it feels that way.

The wind: Bob, I'd also respectfully submit that the wind was blowing very hard out there. On #12 Shore, I hit a good driver and a very good 3-wood just under 430 yards. Then on #16, I hit driver, 8-iron 520 yards, and that wasn't even straight downwind. I think the scores speak for themselves, too.

That every hole on both courses remained entirely playable under those conditions is great evidence of thoughtfulness in the design, maintenance, and setup of both courses. (Playable doesn't mean they weren't wickedly hard in certain spots - but there was no reason to lose a golf ball anywhere on either course.)

The Shore will be a wonderful match play course.

Tim Honeycutt's 69 on the Dunes today - teeing off at 11:30! - was a jaw-dropper (though I'm not forgetting about Blake Trimble's 67). I met Tim on Monday at lunch. He seems like a good kid and I hope that his round Tuesday will draw notice from some college coaches.

Final thought: The list of clubs with multiple courses of comparable quality is incredibly short. The fact that the courses are so distinct, yet so equally appealing, is somewhat astounding.

It's late and I'm sure there are better things for my mental health right now than sitting here at 12:30 a.m. thinking through everything. I'll post again if I think of anything else. Questions are welcome.

Matt

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2007, 10:15:55 AM »
Matt and Andrew, thank you for your comprehensive reports.

I must say that my comments on Monday about the wind may have contained some hyperbole but Jose Sanchez did confirm that we play in similar conditions a good deal of the time and it was not especially difficult. The difference between sitting up at the 11th green on the Dunes on Monday spectating and playing the Shore on Tuesday was quite an eye-opener. In fact it was brutal.

I have but one question to ask of you, how low do you think you could go on both courses, sans wind?


Bob

Bob

AndrewB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2007, 10:29:09 AM »
I have but one question to ask of you, how low do you think you could go on both courses, sans wind?

That's an interesting question.  I told someone last week after seeing the Shore that I expected to see both very low and very high scores.  There is a lot of room to play but if you aren't hitting the fairways then you're in for a long, long day.  The greens are so true that if you're hitting good putts and are comfortable with the speed, you should make a lot of them.  A smart and solid ball striker can position their approach shots to leave uphill putts most of the way around, but that's much easier said than done.  There are also five par fives, three of which (one, 10, and 16) are likely reachable for me without wind and six is likely reachable by the longer hitters.

In short, I don't know how low I could go, but I bet a tour pro playing well could shoot in the low 60s.  What is the course record?

Let me take a few minutes to ponder the same question about the Dunes course.
"I think I have landed on something pretty fine."

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2007, 11:11:45 AM »
Andrew Biggadike from the Carnegie Shield in "Season in Dornoch."

cool.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2007, 11:28:44 AM »
Perhaps it was a bit more windy then normal but the play of these top notch amateur golfers, specifically the college guys who are in top form, demonstrates what a wonderful course Mike Stranz designed, one that can challenge the best golfers but also be very playable for the every day membership.

A wise friend just told me another possible cause for the higher than expected scores, that America's top amateur golfers (the college kids), specifically those in the "good weather" areas of our country, aren't very adept at playing in non-perfect conditions.


CGA Round 2 Recap - Andrew Biggadike shakes hands with medalist
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2007, 11:28:46 AM »
Andrew,

The course record of 64 on the Shore is held by Vijay Singh, made during the Boys And Girls Club Invitational just prior to the A.T.&T. this year.

You may be interested to know that on the par five twelth hole he drove over the ditch, which is some three hundred yards from the tee and hit a five iron second onto the green.

Andrew, did I steer you wrong about the use of the new back tees?

Bob

AndrewB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2007, 12:08:37 PM »
Andrew Biggadike from the Carnegie Shield in "Season in Dornoch."

Yikes.  Setting the record for worst defeat in a Shield final (at least according to Robin Wilson) was not one of my finer moments.  I prefer to remember 2003 and 2005.  Lorne got a few of my facts wrong in that book too (I'm not from NC and he misspelled Guilford).

It seems all threads lead back to Dornoch ...

Perhaps it was a bit more windy then normal but the play of these top notch amateur golfers, specifically the college guys who are in top form, demonstrates what a wonderful course Mike Stranz designed, one that can challenge the best golfers but also be very playable for the every day membership.

A wise friend just told me another possible cause for the higher than expected scores, that America's top amateur golfers (the college kids), specifically those in the "good weather" areas of our country, aren't very adept at playing in non-perfect conditions.

Agreed on your first point.  To your second, I think that applies to all golfers in those areas, not just the top amateur golfers.  Also, strong wind has the effect of bringing more of the course into play, so what's around the greens means a lot too.  That is, it's a lot different to miss right and end up in the Pacific Ocean or have to deal with the challenging contours that Stranz and Raynor/Jones designed, than if you were to miss a green and end up with a straight-forward up and down.  I suspect the latter is more often the case on most courses that the general golfing world gets to play on; as you said, these two courses are challenging and I doubt most players are used to such a test  (especially the green speeds).  As an example, it gets pretty windy out at Palo Alto Muni, but I don't think playing there all the time would have properly prepared me for this.

Quote
CGA Round 2 Recap - Andrew Biggadike shakes hands with medalist

At least I did one thing right out there this week ...

You may be interested to know that on the par five twelth hole he drove over the ditch, which is some three hundred yards from the tee and hit a five iron second onto the green.

I can't even imagine carrying the ball that far.  I'd have to add 70 yards to my carry to make that ditch, at least.  I sure hope it was playing downwind (which would also make the stretch of nine through 13 easier rather than harder, which is the wind we had both days).

Quote
Andrew, did I steer you wrong about the use of the new back tees?

No, not at all.  I hope I didn't say something that made you think that.  The new tee across the road on the fourth of the Shore was not used, as you said, and the new tee on the 11th was used, as you said.  On six and 10 they did put us all the way back, but we suspected that.  I don't know if there were any others in doubt.
"I think I have landed on something pretty fine."

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2007, 12:40:28 PM »
Sorry Andrew.  

Didn't intend to give you bad flashbacks.

Congrats on your two victories by the way.  I wasn't aware.

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2007, 01:28:16 PM »
I walked both courses with my father yesterday (Tuesday) --The Dunes early in foggy, calm conditions. By the early afternoon, it was howling on the Shore course, but nothing out of hand. Mr. Trimble's game is very impressive. I would definitley compare it favorably with many of the Nationwide Tour guys I've witnessed duiring the Wente tournaments.

I liked the Dunes course. I LOVED the Shore course. To repeat a frequent sentiment on this board, Mike Strantz was a genius.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2007, 11:40:29 PM »
An interesting aside to the current thought on who is the favorite. Mr. Trimble was the medallist with a superb display of power and finesse in the medal rounds. His opponent today, got into the match play portion of the event by chipping in on the third hole of a playoff to make the cut. He beat the medallist and goes on to the next round tomorrow.

Conditions today were benign and most of the field have departed thinking that the Monterey Peninsula must be the Carnoustie of California.

I do think this event has given some credence to the rating by the cognoscenti, that the Shore is worthy of No. 77 of the top 100.


Bob

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2007, 12:01:27 AM »
I'd consider the local talent to have an edge.

Go Casey!
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2007, 01:11:43 AM »
Bob,

The gentleman who beat Blake Trimble is John McClure from Los Angeles; he's a friend and a fellow University of Oklahoma alumnus (I think 1980, give or take a year). He's a very kind and somewhat softspoken guy and I'd be happy to see him continue to play well.

How close did the Dunes come to a Top 100 ranking?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 01:12:54 AM by Matt_Cohn »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2007, 01:02:57 PM »
It seems that match play has brought out the best in some golfers games (and probably better weather).  Checkout the scorecard for Joseph Greiner, who was 7 under through 12 holes in his match today that finished in less than 2 hours.

2nd Round Match Play


"... and I liked the guy ..."

Tom Huckaby

Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2007, 01:09:56 PM »
Interesting results for sure.  Man that Greiner (from the home of the state HS football champion Canyon Cowboys, btw) shot 28 on the front nine!  Whoa....

  But what about that three-hole gap between matches (as I type this one match is through 11 holes and the next only 8).  They do go consecutively, every 10 minutes or so, right?  How can a match get three holes behind?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2007, 01:12:29 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:California State Amateur
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2007, 01:20:03 PM »
Interesting results for sure.  Man that Greiner (from the home of the state HS football champion Canyon Cowboys, btw) shot 28 on the front nine!  Whoa....

  But what about that three-hole gap between matches (as I type this one match is through 11 holes and the next only 8).  They do go consecutively, every 10 minutes or so, right?  How can a match get three holes behind?


Tom,

Because one guy one putted seven times. Seeing how some of these youngsters prepare to putt by going through a pantomime of a brain surgery procedure, it doesn't surprise me one bit.

Bob

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back