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Dan Moore

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My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« on: June 13, 2007, 09:16:49 PM »
This ended up rather long so it will be posted in 4 parts.  

My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links

In absolutely beautiful mid-June Wisconsin weather Sectional Qualifying for the USGA Amateur Public Links Championship was held at Erin Hills this past weekend. Over two days 135 contestants, including yours truly, vied (well I didn’t actually vie for anything but had fun in a perverse masochistic kind of way) for 4 spots in the Championship to be held at Cantigny Golf Course in Wheaton, Il. just down the road from the Chicago Golf Club. At the conclusion of day one ten players were at par or better including University of Wisconsin golfer Dan Woltman who was the leader at 4 under par 68. At the conclusion of play Sunday the four qualifiers finished under par with Woltman the medalist at 4 under 140 and 2007 Wisconsin High School State Champion Jack Schultz of Whitefish Bay HS (my H.S. alma mater) second at 3 under 141. No other players finished at par or better.

Logistically the tournament ran very smoothly.  Spotters were placed around the course to help with stray shots in key areas. Play was scheduled for 5 hours and stayed pretty much on schedule with threesomes going off at 10 minute intervals. Due to some of the distances involved players were shuttled between holes 4 and 5, 9 and 10, and 18 and the clubhouse.  As a trial run for next June’s Women’s Amateur Public Links, I have to assume the USGA is quite pleased with how things flowed.

Here are my first impressions of Erin Hills after seeing it over two rounds in tournament conditions.

Erin Hills bills itself as an Irish golf experience. This certainly held true for the clubhouse staff who couldn’t have been more friendly and welcoming. One can imagine some good craic in the clubhouse pub or in the neat refurbished barn after a round on a crisp Autumn day. While there are clearly some similarities to Irish Links golf in the humps and bumps of the fairways, the terrain of the Kettle Moraine area of Wisconsin is more abrupt than the dunes of the typical seaside Irish links. There is an abundance of trees.  A seaside links Erin Hills is not. Nor is it a prairie links like Crystal Downs, Prairie Dunes or Black Sheep. I think it should be called a Glacial Links.

Unlike the sand blown dunes of the seaside links, the terrain in the Kettle Moraine region of Wisconsin was formed by the convergence of the Green Bay and Lake Michigan glacial lobes which crunched and scrunched their way over the land leaving in their wake small to large deposits of glacial till and rock strewn ice.  The drumlins, kames, eskers, and kettles formed by these glacial movements are in abundant display throughout the course and in the nearby morainal ridge that serves as the lofty perch of the Holy Hill Cathedral which beckons golfers in need of spiritual refreshment as they head home on 17 and 18. The glacial character of the land forming this Glacial Links is one of the clearly distinctive aspects of Erin Hills and makes it unique among golf courses in my experience. (http://www.nps.gov/archive/iatr/expanded/history.htm)  

For the qualifier the course was set up around 7,200 yards and played from a variety of black (7,800 yd course), blue (7,100 yd course) and green tees (6,500 yd course). I think we played 4-5 black tees, around 8 blue tees and the rest green tees. This ability to mix and match tees is one of the strengths of the course as it would be very easy to piece together a course of almost any length. Depending on the tee used holes may be varied from short to long from one day to the next.  At 7,200 the course proved a bit too long for my Sunday five handicap, but clearly was well within reach for top caliber younger golfers who were out driving me by 20-30 yards. For everyday play they will be wise to add a good mix of tees in the 6,700 to 6,900 yard range to the existing course set-ups. One of the keys to enjoying Erin Hills will be playing from the right set of tees.

For a course open a little less than a year the playing conditions were remarkably good. I think this was only a little over a week after Jason Blasberg’s visit where he noted it was a bit wet and soggy. After a week of dry weather and some 35 mph winds on Thursday and Friday, by the weekend the course was dry, pretty darn firm and reasonably fast. Like seaside links courses, shots to the greens barely left a dent and ball marks were not to be seen. The fescue fairways have come in nicely but still have a few bare areas. I assume to encourage grow-in they were left fairly shaggy for play, in fact in 1 or 2 instances I would call my lie in the fairway a very good lie in the rough. It was difficult to spin anything from the fairway. Once they get to full grow in and they are comfortable cutting them down tight it will be a fun roller coaster ride out there and will enhance some of the strategic decisions as you take the run out into consideration. All in all, in a little under a year, they are well on their way to a truly fast and firm golf course.

The greens were in very good condition. They looked like they were double cut and were running true with a comfortable amount of speed. I didn’t hear a single complaint from anyone about the green conditions. In general the greens feature more tilts and tiers than internal contour,  I assume because of the anticipated need to accommodate championship level speeds. The strength of the greens is their variety.  Some are large and some are small.  Some are hump backed and some are punchbowls in glacial kettles.  Some are well bunkered and some have few or none.  Some tilt this way and others that.    (con't)
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Moore

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 09:18:10 PM »
My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
Part Two

With respect to overall aesthetics Erin Hills is a work in progress. The first impression is a good one once you find the entrance. A small unassuming sign on a post stands sentinel at the entrance. I missed it and ended up 10 minutes down the road. Once found a winding drive leads you along a bluff with a panoramic view of the course. The outstanding natural contours and scope of the property are in full view and you have to get excited about what you are about to confront.

A big part of the aesthetic look of the course is the native areas that are being grown to their natural height. Many including the management of the course refer to the long grass as the sea of fescue, but most of it isn’t fescue. I’ll just call the long stuff the native areas. I am told a lot of the native area is populated by Reed Canary Grass, a tough, thick, not all that attractive invasive plant that takes over from other types of natural prairie grasses.  Canary Grass is very dense and makes the native areas so thick it is very hard to find a ball and is almost impossible to play from. You don’t really see the variety of attractive native prairie grasses one sees, for example, at the Kingsley Club or a lot of the wispy brown topped fescues of Prairie Dunes. The Canary Grass will probably need to be eradicated over time to enable other more attractive native prairie grasses to fill in. While the playing widths are quite wide, fifty to sixty yards in most places, there are several holes  (#2, #9, #12, #14) where hillsides covered with long native grasses beg to be challenged. I hope they have a long term plan to thin out and enhance the variety of the native areas as that will go a long way to improving the overall aesthetic appeal and playability of the course.   http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/invasives/fact/reed_canary.htm

One cool feature was the presence of two small kettle ponds between the tee and green on the par 3 13th. Kettles are formed when large masses of ice are isolated from a melting glacier, buried within glacial debris, and then melt forming a depression in the glacial deposits. Some are quite large and form many of the lakes in the region. Others dry up over time and leave small to large hollows in the terrain. The 3rd and 16th, are located in natural kettles.  

The bunker faces have yet to fully grow in so it s still hard to tell what they will look like when they mature. They are some of the meanest, nastiest bunkers I have ever seen so they really need some pretty eyebrows and lips to disguise their fangs. They range from big and cavernous to small pots and trenches. Their strategic role will be discussed in more depth when I get to the individual holes, but these bunkers are real hazards and will extract a penalty if you are unfortunate enough to find one.  All bunker surfaces must be hand raked; they were in fine shape even if not perfectly manicured.  Until the bunker faces completely grown in the course will continue to have a raw, unfinished look.  

There are quite a few trees on the property including maples, oaks and hawthornes. With the exception of the 1st hole most stay well to the perimeter of play. The 17th is nicely framed along the right side by a series of trees along a ridge. With the variety of trees and long native grasses the course will look spectacular in the Fall.

The routing of the course will probably be debated without end.  On a property as big and varied as Erin Hills one will wonder why so many parallel holes, why so many shots to elevated greens, why so many uphill walks to tees, why so far from some greens to the next tee, why so far from 9 to 10, why so far from 18 to the clubhouse, why 19 holes. Were these necessary to get the best holes from the available land, surely the goal of every routing? Or were they compromises to get to certain favored hole locations or compromises to the goal of moving little or no dirt? Were there better alternatives that would have yielded a course that flows better from hole to hole with a wider variety of approaches? Only time will tell.

Like courses in Ireland walking at Erin Hills is encouraged and is the best way to navigate the waves of terrain and will enhance your appreciation of the course.  The only drawbacks are a few steep climbs to elevated tees and some longish walks from a few greens to the next tee.  I had a friend caddy for me and highly recommend that you take a caddy when you visit.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 07:18:31 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Moore

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2007, 09:19:50 PM »
My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links

Part Three

Here is my personal take on the individual holes. (I only took a few photos when I initially walked a few holes before playing so I won’t post pictures here. Please refer to Jason Blasberg’s series of photos covering the entire course which I will supplement with my photos and a post on holes 1-3 which he didn’t get.)

As exemplified by the first three holes the course offers an eclectic mix of strategic, heroic, penal and just plain quirky golf.


Hole #1  574 par 5 (Blue)       

Some courses ease you into it, not Erin Hills even if this is the shortest par 5 you will play all day.  Many have said they don’t like this hole either because of the tree or blind 2nd shot. At first look it is somewhat awkward visually. You have the option off the tee to play safe wide right where there is an abundance of room on a flatter higher area or try to cut off some distance by hugging the left into an area of small undulations while bringing the marsh on the far left into play. The second is uphill and blind over a bunker faced ridge to another wide landing zone with the option of challenging the tree and narrow part of the fairway on the left to get closer to the green. A truly heroic play is available if you want to go for the green in two and confront the tree, marsh left and long grass right. The third is to a bunkerless green tilted from right to left toward the marsh. The tree makes sense because it guards against a too aggressive line that brings the marsh on the left into play and points the way to the safer landing zone on the right between the bunkers set into the ridge. Along with 2 and 3 I thought it was a strong introduction to some of the hidden charms Erin Hills has to offer.

Hole #2  351 par 4 (Black)

Great short par 4. Tee is set back 50 or more yards into the marsh behind the 1st green. The fairway is tucked at an angle between two good sized glacial hills. Option off tee to play straight away to a visible landing zone where you will have a blind angled approach over the right hand hillside to the narrowest of greens or one can blindly drive over or a draw around a domed glacial hill on the left for a view of the green and a straight in approach. The green is very small and narrow and sits atop a little table top plateau with fall offs on all sides. Anything not crisply and accurately struck to the center of the green will run off the green The green is surrounded by short grass leaving a variety of up and down possibilities. More will miss than hit this green even with a wedge in hand.

Hole #3  451 par 4 (Blue)

A climb to a very elevated tee leads to a view of the entire hole with the green on a ledge in the distance. Here the typical width of the playing corridors is in clear view with fairway and rough of at least 50-60 yards before the native areas come into play. This hole played very long into the prevailing wind. A down hill drive to the fairway is followed by an uphill shot to a green perched on the hillside, first of a theme to be repeated several more times during the round. A very nice hole, part of a really good three hole start.

Hole #4  412 par 4 (Black)

Playing from the Black tee put the fairway bunker out at 300 yards. Some eclectic bunkering near the green including a nasty little trench bunker. Nice green set in a little kettle like depression.

Hole #5 366 par 4 (Green)

Played this hole up on the Green tees. They probably wanted to try and put the centerline bunker in play at 266 compared to 322 from the blue tee, but downwind the players I was with had no problem flying it. A neat hole with choice of playing right or left of the bunker when its in play. The better side seemed to be high right which opened up the approach to the green. The key to the hole will be finding the right tee to keep the bunker in play. Down side to this hole was the hundred plus yard shuttle ride that was needed from the 4th green.

Hole #6   188 par 3 (Blue)
Here is where it starts to get a little funky. Plays slightly uphill over a large false front to a deep largely hidden green surface. Once past the false front green runs away from you. Fairly unremarkable.  Looked like a better hole from the elevated Black tee at 236 yards where you could see more of the green.  

Hole #7   165-188 yd par 3 (Between green and blue)

The Dell. Everyone seemed to enjoy this hole. Seems to me we played this around 169-175 somewhere between the green and blue tees on the card. I thought the tee shot was odd over the stone at tee level to the green down between two hills. Green was slanted short left to longer right. Quirky and a little gimmicky, a novelty if nothing else.

Hole #8   472 par 4 (Black)

In my view the weakest, least distinctive hole on the course made worse by the fact it repeats the downhill drive uphill approach of the third hole along the same east to west orientation and is followed by another far more interesting uphill approach on 9.  Given the abundance of uphill approaches on the course (#3, #6, #9, #14, #15) couldn’t the uphill 2nd shot should have been avoided here. It doesn’t help that this hole is located on the most open, least interesting property on the course.  Is it an accident that two of the least interesting holes (six and eight ) fall before and after the Dell?  Green is very good with a large spine through the middle.  


Hole #9 450 par 4 (Blue)

Some may love and others may hate this hole. A long par 4 with a ninety degree dogleg left. An awkward drive between a hillside covered with long grass left and the right side of the fairway on a downslope away from the dogleg on the right and a risk of driving through the fairway. Drive really needs to stay in the left half of the fairway.  After the 90 degree dogleg the 2nd shot is anywhere from 170 to 215 depending on how much of the death if you miss hillside you want to take on by hugging the corner. The 2nd is all carry to the third green in nine holes perched high up on a hillside.  The green is fronted by three nasty looking bunkers which at least will keep you from rolling all the way down a pretty big hill. The 2nd shot is softened by a huge backstop behind the green which will funnel balls back onto the green and a bail out area right. One of the better contoured greens on the course. This will be a great match play hole.   (con't)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 07:37:52 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Moore

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2007, 09:21:46 PM »
My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
Part Four

After a long shuttle ride from 9 green to 10 tee (200-300 yards at least) and a view of the Bye Hole we come to the Biarritz Hole. The Bye Hole looks like the best or 2nd best par 3 on the course. I was told it was not ready for competitive play.

Hole #10 597 Par 5 (Green)

We played this one "up" at 597 yards. A somewhat blind but extremely wide landing area with tons of room left away from the bunker. There is also plenty of room left on the second shot which is needed to avoid a deep drop off and marshy area to the right short of the green and there is a high spot on the right short of the drop off that gives a good view of the green if you are willing to risk that route. We played a front hole location on day one and in the swale day two. The front is more difficult to hold and repelled my wedge but offers more interest in the short game because of the slopes. Not an bad pin position but not really fitting for a long approach in regulation. The swale will offer some interesting putts depending on which side of the slope they put it on. I didn’t take any time to examine the back but it looked pretty unusable, but Chris Brauner reports the back location was used for the Friday practice round. I personally feel this hole would work much better as a shorter half par 5 with the option of going for the green in two and risking the deep drop off to the right. Some really fun up and downs to the front and back hole locations would then be in play with a good player very disappointed if they didn’t nab a birdie. The course would really benefit from a short, 2 shot par 5.  However, the fact is at 597 yards it probably would play as a half par hole on tour.  Without building a elevated tee box or filling in the valley 50-100 yards in front of  the current tees that doesn’t seem to be an option for everyday play.  

Hole #11 414 par 4 (Black)
Playing way out to the Biarritz green does have it's advantages as shown by the next series of holes where it gets really interesting and fun.  The variety of holes that stretch from here through 15 is just superb. Played from the back tee it requires a big carry to a fairway with lots of small undulations before heading to a terrific green site. From the tee do not try to challenge the line over the bunker too much. If you find the deep grass left its goodnight Irene. Bunkers short left hide a big area to land the ball and feed it in off the slope on the left. Another nasty bunker right sneaks in very close to the far right pin placement. Kudos on the course set up for playing this one back at the black tees and the next hole shorter on the green tees.

Hole #12 388 par 4 (Green)

Another fairway full of undulation. A large hillside covered with long grass on the right hides the green unless you get out far enough into a narrow area where the fairway snakes back toward the green. Use of the forward tee brought the open area left more into play. Another smallish narrow green, but unlike the similar sized and shaped second green the slopes here feed the ball onto the green.

Hole #13 193 par 3 (Blue)

My favorite par 3. Green is perched on a plateau with a very deep pot bunker and another larger bunker protecting the right hand side. Over protect against going left and you might find the closely mown slope to the right that will take you down 15-20 feet below the green surface. There you are faced with a tough recovery where you could flop, pitch, scoot an 8 iron, hit a hybrid or putt. Green has a big swale in the middle left which didn’t come into play given the front and back pin placements.

Hole #14 615 yd par 5 (Black)

My favorite par 5 maybe because of how it flows from tee to green which reminded me a little of something Langford might have done. This hole just looks like it had to be there. A centerline bunker flanked by two bunkers in the rough requires a decision off the tee.  At 615 into the wind going for it in two over a hill and the native area was not an option.  After a lay-up lthere is a fine semi-blind approach shot to one of the better greens located on a ledge set into the side of a hill. Two tiered with the lower tier to the right, it is possible to use the hill behind the green to feed the ball back down to the lower right tier. Stand on the elevated green and admire the view back toward the tee.


Hole #15 338 yd par 4 (Green)

With a centerline bunker prominently in play this is the most strategic hole on the course. Does the big banger go for the green or lay back for a wedge. Do you go right or left to create an angle for your shot to a smallish green once again set on a ledge above the fairway. The green features a very small sunken living room of a tier on the back left tucked behind a bunker. It looked like the only way to get to a flag on this tier would be to spin it off the backstop behind the green and hope it doesn’t get hung up in the long grass. Terrific hole.

Hole #16 181 (Black)

A big hillside to the left partially blocks your view of the downhill approach to the green and the open approach from the left. All the trouble is right and short. Nice green site in a little kettle.  A very solid hole and clearly better than six. Maybe six needs to leave the rotation and not seven when the Bye hole is ready to come off the disabled list. Could seven be approached from the opposite direction closer to where the 6th tee is? Would it be a more interesting shot?  Maybe its just me but I feel the nature of this property is just screaming for long heroic par 3, perhaps a modern version of Portrush’s Calamity running from one glacial hilltop to another.  In many ways Erin Hills is just one stupendous, all world par three from being extraordinary.  Its probably out there somewhere.  

Hole #17 445 yd par 4 (Blue)

A testing but fair hole with a different feel due to the tree lined ridge that runs along the right of the hole. A big drive hugging the right 10 yards of the fairway is needed to get a good view of the green  A slightly uphill approach must cross a glacial drumlin to a large flat putting surface.  Called Cathedral for its views of Holy Hill in the distance as you head for home.

Hole #18 614 yd par 5

A pretty tough option laden finish through a bunker strewn minefield. After avoiding the bunkers on the left and right with your tee shot, you need to decide how much to challenge the deep centerline pot bunker on the upper right plateau that offers the most direct line and best view of the green for the third shot. A lay-up short left must confront a deep drop off to the heavy native areas and bunkers guarding the left side with the uphill third shot. With the green perched on a little plateau anything short will run off. A pretty deep green also features a drop off behind the green to a steep closely mown area. Anything from birdie to double is in play on this one. For many, some stiff spiritual refreshment will be in order after wrapping up the round. Too bad the pub is a short par 4 away.

There is a lot to like about Erin Hills and some problems as well. It is a big, brawny, strategic and occasionally penal course with several short par 4's that really stand out.  I don’t think most people will have a problem with some of the routing eccentricities that resulted in some long distances between a few holes.  The thinning out and enhancement of the native areas is something that can addressed over time once course conditions are up to speed.  More problematic is what to do with the stretch between six and eight and the Bye hole.

Is Erin Hills on the road to being a great course or has it gone down an errant path? The great courses I have seen have a sense of place or distinct personality. It might be a history of competitive excellence, a dramatic location or property, or a terrific design. Whether Erin Hills develops her own distinct personality remains to be seen, but the potential is there. There is an expansiveness and drama and character to the property that is undeniably one of Erin’s strong points. She is in line for consideration as a championship venue starting with next year’s Women’s Amateur Public Links. Most great courses have evolved over time. Like the glaciers that formed the land on which it lays we will see where that evolution takes us at Erin Hills.  

I heartily recommend getting out to check it out for yourself. It is well worth it.


« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 07:32:50 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

John Kirk

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 09:43:18 PM »
Dan,

Thanks for your detailed description.

The jury is still out whether the critics will embrace Erin Hills, but one thing is for certain.  Erin Hills is generating a great deal of discussion, and by that criteria, you'd have to conclude it is an important new golf course.

And, by the way, talk to Eric Terhorst when you get a chance.

RJ_Daley

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2007, 10:22:02 PM »
Well, what ever your view of Brad Klein's review, I would be surprised if anyone thought Dan didn't do a comprehensive and apparently fair assessment.  That was a great read Dan!

Reading the hole descriptions and property and routing observations, I am leaning towards skeptical about bringing in the Women's Am as a first serious tournament.  It sounds like this qualifier was a better guage.  Perhaps a Women's pro tourmament, but can even the best Women Am's deal with this much golf course?  I don't know, I'm just starting to wonder...

At this point, I really need to see a comprehensive review by someone of moderate golf skill, who plays this course around 6400-6600, if that set-up is possible among the quirk of routing and carries.  Or, just bite the bullet and go there myself!  ::) ;D

For those that haven't seen the two videos shot before the course was built revealing the incredible property, and after the course was built, showing many of the same vistas of the before shots, one might get more insight into the routing decisions.  so for what it is worth...


http://www.erinhills.com/makingof.html
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Eric_Terhorst

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 11:30:38 PM »
Dan,

Fantastic review, really well written.  That was worth waiting for just to learn a few new geologic words.  I can't help thinking I'll have a new song in my head next time I play Erin Hills: "drumlins and eskers and kanes, oh my!"

I really like the term "glacial links."  I note it doesn't return any golf-related links in a Google search, so you've coined it.  Somehow you've inspired me, just with that term, to take a fresh look at the course.  Based on your descriptions, there are still a lot of holes I won't remember until I see them again, so it's a must-complete.

Mind you, I'll never be accepting of 100 yard walks from green to tee...


RJ_Daley

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2007, 10:24:06 AM »
I honestly don't get the aversion to 100 yard walks.  As stated above, that is a few seconds, probably not even a minute to get to the next tee.  Walks I deem more significant are those that take several minutes.  Or. walks that take several minutes over steep terrain.  Since they have all that elasticity in Erin Hills, and without seeing it, I can't imagine how they could avoid walks to back tees since any back tee is going to be 50 to 100 yards behind the 'regular' golfer tee blocks.  I think it is better to design to have the good players walk back a few yards each time, than have the weaker players walk past several sets of tees that are impossible for them, and feel puny.  ;) ;D 8) ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Geoffrey Childs

Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 10:39:05 AM »
Dan

I too think you have coined a wonderful term for the golf course in "Glacial Links".  The owners should use it in their marketing and give you a lifetime pass to play  8)

The variety of hole lengths is a strength of the course.  Noel and I played from 6500 yards and frankly it played VERY short for us.  We had an afternoon round at Kohler and we thought the 7100 yard tees might hold us up a bit but in hindsight based on our play they would have been OK.  I agree that a set at about 6800 or so should be instituted by mixing and matching some tee sets.

The pin on the 10th was on the front shelf.  I had 112 yards (in hindsight to the center of a very large green) for my third and hit an easy PW to the swale. Noel was on the very back of the green and hit about 150 foot putt to a foot. Being semi blind, a pinsheet and front, middle and back yardages might have helped.

The bye hole will probably turn out the beest of the par 3's with the 13th next.  I agree that hole is cool.  The stretch of 11-13 for me was pretty inspiring.

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 09:21:26 PM »
Geoffrey it is a lot of course at 7100/7200 yards. I thought of mixing the tees up to find a 6800 course but got to playing the blues and forgot.

Michael Dugger

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2007, 12:09:21 AM »
With all this talk about Erin Hills going on, I have but one thing to say....

I am so happy to see Hurdzan/Fry doing something different!!

The course looks wild......crazy......that Dell hole; some of the gnarly bunkers.  It's uber refreshing and nice to see.

We are truly living in a glorious time to be golf course architecture afficianados.
 :)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 12:09:58 AM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Dan Moore

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Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2007, 01:15:14 PM »
Eric Geoff,

Thank you.  Glacial Links (I think I'll put the (c) or (TM) here) just seemed right.  I hope they fully embrace the concept because the glacial nature of the terrain is what really makes the course a little different than others.   I noticed one of the articles on their website calls it a links style heathlands course??

I noticed after writing this that on their website they indicate hole #1 is where they moved the most dirt.  Apparently the entire upper fairway was created by a large cut into the hillside.  The first green was also raised, presumably above the level of the marsh.

I have been playing around with the various tees and its fun to see all the different ways some of the holes can be set up to get a course in the 6,660 to 6,900 range.  Maybe I'll play with it for awhile and post my ideal course in that range in a few days.  I'm pretty sure it will have the 6th at 236 and the Bye Hole instead of 7.    

I hope someone does in an in-depth interview with the design team at some point.  I'd love to get inside their thought process on some of they things they did there.    

 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Brendan Dolan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Take on Erin Hills: A Modern Glacial Links
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2007, 11:57:22 PM »
Dan,

I really enjoyed your comments.  I'll try to post some of my thoughts at a later date.  I got to get to bed as I have to be there in about 6 to 7 hours.  If any one ever plans to come out and play, please let me know.  Would love to meet some GCA guys.

Thanks,
Brendan