When is the Open Going Back to Oakmont?

[Phil Benedict]

Back 9 was the best in memory.  Amidst the usual Sunday carnage, Carbrera and Furyk made some birdies.  17 is the best short par 4 in the world with the US Open set up - produces birdies and bogies.  But there is no such thing as a routine par.  The anticipation of Tiger playing that hole was amazing today.

[JLahrman]

Hopefully it will be the 7 or 8 year plan, not the 13 years we had to wait.  I believe it's booked through 2014 with the Pinehurst announcement this week though.

[TEPaul]

I think Oakmont is definitely on the USGA "tight" rota of clubs they will be going back to on a regular Open rota schedule. And the important thing is the club seems to be completely behind future US Open scheduling.

[Bill Gayne]

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't ten or eleven years due to geography. The US Open is heavily loaded on the east coast with no scheduled champions in the middle of the country and only Torrey Pines and Pebble Beach in the west.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't ten or eleven years due to geography. The US Open is heavily loaded on the east coast with no scheduled champions in the middle of the country and only Torrey Pines and Pebble Beach in the west.

Isn't Olympic the site for 2012?  Therefore two of the next three opens are in the west and Oakmont is, arguably, in the middle of the country.

Maybe its just me but I think Torrey Pines is going to be a big letdown in terms of quality of course vs. what we have been seeing and what we will be seeing in the future.  I personally don't think it stacks up vs. courses such as Oakmont, Pebble, Winged Foot, Pinehurst, Olympic, Shinny, Pinehurst, Merion, etc.

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

Word I have heard is that despite all the raves the likelihood in Oakmont getting a return of the Open anytime before 2018 / 2019 seems doubtful. Why?

You have other layouts that are now waiting their "return" engagement with the likes of Shinnecock, Winged Foot and a few others of note. That includes a return engagement to the midwest area in and around the Chicago vicinity -- possibly Whistling Straits, Medinah or even Olympia Fields.

I only wish the Open was at Oakmont always within a 7-8 time frame.

Clearly, going to Torrey Pines next year is a HUGE letdown.

[George Pazin]

I believe the main reason for the 13 year lag was the bridge issue, which has obviously been resolved.

I see no reason to wait even till the next opening - let's just bump Torrey next year.

In all seriousness, I'd hope Oakmont is right up there with Pebble and Shinney as the 3 courses that are in a 10 year loop.

[tlavin]

Phil:

Word I have heard is that despite all the raves the likelihood in Oakmont getting a return of the Open anytime before 2018 / 2019 seems doubtful. Why?

You have other layouts that are now waiting their "return" engagement with the likes of Shinnecock, Winged Foot and a few others of note. That includes a return engagement to the midwest area in and around the Chicago vicinity -- possibly Whistling Straits, Medinah or even Olympia Fields.

I only wish the Open was at Oakmont always within a 7-8 time frame.

Clearly, going to Torrey Pines next year is a HUGE letdown.

Agreed on all counts.  Oakmont proved itself this week as possibly the best Open site.  If they played there more often, I'm sure we'd see Mike Davis tweak the setup in more creative ways.  As for Torrey Pines, we go from the most worthy site to a most unworthy site, IMHO.

[David Stamm]

Despite Torrey being my home course for a period of time, I agree with all here. I'm not sure of it's worthiness as an Open venue. Very tough acts to follow over the past few years. Let's give it a chance first and see, but I'm skeptical.


Bring back Riviera as an Open site for So Cal!

[Jeff Evagues]

According to todays Post Gazette, the members want it back ASAP

[Jim Franklin]

Why is Pinehurst getting a return engagement so quickly? I think Oakmont and Shinnecock are the two best Open courses we have followed by Winged Foot and Pebble.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Why is Pinehurst getting a return engagement so quickly? I think Oakmont and Shinnecock are the two best Open courses we have followed by Winged Foot and Pebble.

Maybe it is part of the trend to hold the US Open at courses that the common man can play, at least the common man with an extra $400.  

And I think Merion will rank right up there with Oakmont and Shinny.

[Bill Shamleffer]

It would appear that the following six courses are the USGA’s top tier US Open courses: Winged Foot, Pinehurst, Bethpage Black, Pebble Beach, Shinnecock, and Oakmont.  Each of these is a great course which can test the best professionals, and has the proper facilities and size to host a U.S. Open.

Why does not the USGA do a modified version of the R & A’s rota.  Visit 1 of each of these courses every other year over a 12 year span.  Than in the in between years visit a variety of other courses able to hold the U.S. Open.  Course such as Olympia Fields, Bellerive, Congressional, Cherry Hills, Atlanta Athletic Club, Oakland Hills, Oak Hill, Hazeltine, Crooked Stick, Southern Hills and Torrey Pines may not all be great courses, but they are very good courses.  Additionally, each meets the other requirements for holding a U.S. Open, and keeping each in play for a visit at least once every quarter century allows the U.S. Open to visit a variety of other cities around the country.  In this mix the USGA should try to get to the Northwest and the South (the pros can handle a little June heat).  Also in this mix should be attempts to visit the great small courses, such as Merion, The Country Club, Olympic Club, Riviera, Colonial and Scioto for example.

The result would be going to the big six U.S. Open courses every other year, and then giving an occasional visit to a variety of 12 other courses over a quarter century span.

[Matt_Ward]

Candidly, there are six or seven top tier sites that should host the Open continually. The likes of Shinnecock, Pinehurst #2, Pebble, Oakmont, WF / West, BB, possibly adding Merion depending how everything comes out when it hosts seem to be mainstays. No doubt a midwest site will be a part of that process.

You also have to be somewhat "open" to the possibility of a new site entering the scene -- Errin Hills, to name just one that comes quickly to mind.

[TEPaul]

".....Pinehurst #2, Pebble, Oakmont, WF / West, BB,...."

Matt:

Those ones are the only ones on a rota. The others are somewhere else on the periphery. It's not just the course, it's about the region and the art of making the deal.  

[Jim Sweeney]

When one thinks of midwestern cities and therefore invariably of Chicago. Will Dubs Dred turn out to be an Open course after it's renovation? We'll see. I would think, though, that the USGA would love a great Open course in the windy city.

With so many great courses identified, it would be hard to go back to one site more often than every 13-15 years. Avoiding over exposure is good also- didn't the anticipation of this Open enhance your experience?

[Phil McDade]

Um, I'm not sure the USGA is as concerned as this board about the architectural merits of its Open courses in deciding where to hold the tournament. A factor? Certainly. The primary one? Doubtful. Moving it around to the various regions of the country -- so that it can tap into the corporate sponsorship dollars of the West Coast, e.g., and not "over-tap" the NE corridor -- seems to be a pretty paramount factor.

I'm impressed that the USGA has shown a willingness to go to newly discovered courses -- Bethpage and Pinehurst being two examples -- plus be willing to take a bite on its income by going to a truncated site (with considerable history) like Merion. But doing so -- combined with the regional needs of the USGA -- increases the likelihood that Oakmont won't see an Open for a while.

[Matt_Ward]

Jim --

For my $$ -- Oakmont, Shinnecock, Pebble, BB, WF / West and Pinehurst #2 deserve to be a bit more frequent than once every 13 years. That one of the appeals of the British Open rota -- more frequent for the viewers to see.

I do agree that a midwest site will be thrown into the mixure but as Tom Paul surmised it's more of a second tier operation rather than a front page performance as the above listed.

[Tim Gavrich]

I'm sorry; I just don't like the idea of staging the US Open (or any major, for that matter at a site that has already held a PGA Tour event during that year.  It seems redundant, and is an opportunity to "spread the wealth" wasted.

Why not...
A) Set Pebble up for the regular tournament as though it's a US Open (kind of a crazy idea, but might be fun).  Same goes for Torrey Pines
or
B) Mandate that if Torrey Pines or Pebble are going to host the open, they  must move the regular event to another site.  This would allow the fans to see another course during the year.  Maybe I'm being picky, but I share the sentiment that Torrey Pines is going to be a snoozer of an Open in comparison to Oakmont this year.

[TEPaul]

Is the USGA and the PGA collaborating with their course and regional scheduling more than they ever have?

Is this a good thing or a bad thing or sort of neutral in the broad scheme of things?

Matter of fact, what, in your opinon, should be the ideal relationship with tournament-scheduling with the USGA (US Open) and the PGA (PGA Championship)?

Is there really a concern about something like market saturation in a single metropolitan area (such as New York) if both happen to be there in a single year?

Another interesting question. Are there any old-line regular Open Championship clubs that would consider a PGA Championship? Are there any that wouldn't and if not, why not?

Would Oakmont, Bethpage, Winged Foot, Merion, Pinehurst?

We sure do know that Baltusrol has broken through that seemingly traditional division.

What's the difference for a club between a US Open and a PGA championship other than the fact a few of those clubs might have to pass a By-Law to let a golf professional into their clubhouse and locker-room?

Oh, sorry, they aren't second class citizens anymore, are they? The members don't really need to worry about Tommy Armour and the well being of their daughter anymore, do they?

[Phil McDade]

Tom:

All good questions. I do know the PGA pulled out of Shahallee in the Seattle area due to corporate focus on the winter Olympics in nearby Vancouver -- the thought was the Olympics were just sucking in so much money that the PGA couldn't compete against that. It went to Whistling Straits here in Wisconsin.

And I do know Herb Kohler really, really wanted a US Open at Whistling Straits, but was a bit impatient, and when the PGA came in and offered him two future PGAs (2010 and 2015) and a Ryder Cup, he jumped at it, knowing full well he was giving up his goal of hosting a men's US Open in his lifetime.

The other clubs that have hosted the US Open and seemed to have switched over to the PGA are Oakland Hills, which hosted a recent Ryder Cup and gets the PGA next year; and Hazeltine, which gets the PGA again in 09 and the Ryder Cup in 2016. Southern Hills has gone back and forth between the two, hosting the PGA this year only five years after the US Open. Oak Hill hosted a recent PGA in what was rumored to be a dry-run for the club wanting another US Open, supposedly one reason it was set up tough that year.

Looking at the schedules, there does seem to be a kind of de facto collusion regarding the two majors and avoiding having them in each other's backyards -- '07 is Oakmont  vs. Southern Hills; '08 is Torrey vs. Oakland Hills; '09 is Bethpage vs. Hazeltine; '10 is Pebble vs. WStraits; '11 is Congressional vs. Atlanta; '12 is Olympic vs. Kiawah; '13 is Merion vs. ?? The '08 Ryder Cup goes Midwest/South (Louisville, a tweener place like Pittsburgh); and then the Midwest after that (Medinah, Hazeltine and WStraits).

My only other thought is that the US Open ought to be reserved for courses that have really stood the test of time, and hold up architecturally, and have a place in the history of the game -- the sort-of rota that's been discussed. I think the USGA put a few too many Opens in the late 60s and 70s at relatively undistinguished courses (Bellerive, Champions, Hazeltine). I do think the PGA has a role in pushing its major on to some new, interesting designs ala WStraits, as well as old classics like Baltusrol that for regional and other reasons may be lower on the pecking order.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Once again this board overlooks the merits of Oakland Hills as a workhorse for championship golf.  6 Opens, 2 PGAs, 2 Senior Opens, Western Open, Ryder Cup, US Amateur, US Womens Amateur - next year they will host the PGA again.  If you are talking midwest venues, Oakland Hills is far and away the most prestigious site and in fact, it is one of the most prestigious in the country.  Only a few clubs are in its league.  To try and leave OH off the top flight of hosts is an oversight to say the least.  Mind you, they still need to cut the rough!

Ciao

I was thinking the same thing, and then my next thought was... "is Oakland Hills a PGA club/course now" as opposed to a USGA one?  Does anyone else think that might be the way it's starting to set-up?  PGA (last Open in parentheses) goes to Oakland Hills ('96), Baltusrol ('93), Atlanta Athletic (?), Medinah ('90), Southern Hills ('01?), and they're not on the US Open rotation through 2014.

[mike_malone]

 I would dump WFW from the rota. BPB and Shinnecock are the best two NY sites, one has the "public" angle and the other is a superior course. Even Baltrusrol seems to have been bumped. Oakmont is a much more interesting course than WFW and Merion will get a chance to prove itself. That's enough for the Midatlantic region.

[Michael Ryan]

Hey guys,

Saw your posts about future Opens.  Word in the NY area is that WFW will be the host in 2015, it will be announced next year at Torrey Pines.  As for why Pinehurst and Bethpage are on a rather quick return basis ('02 to '09 for B'page and '99 to '05 to '14 for P'hurst) its because those are the two most successful sites the USGA can stage the event, based on factors other than the 18 holes.  Room for corporate hospitality, on-site parking, etc.  

Also hearing that Shinnecock is not on the radar for a future Open, it seems that the aftertaste of Sat and Sun conditions in 2004 have left the two parties on not the best terms...

After watching this week, I would love to see Oakmont jump in the rota every 8 years, the place is fantastic...

And yes, it seems that the temptation of hosting a Ryder Cup has put Oakland Hills into the PGA camp...at least for now.

[Phil McDade]

Sean:

I'd certainly put Oakland Hills in that category; it certainly has the pedigree.

I can't help but think the USGA is sort of stuck with figuring out how to get another Open in Chicago -- golf commentators tend to run hot-and-cold on Olympia Fields, and one regular GCA poster suggested the USGA did the course no favors re. perceived toughness when it chopped the rough down just prior to the recent Open there. Maybe the toughest Open-type track in Chicago -- Butler -- if off-limits, and I can't imagine the USGA folks weren't scared off by the shredding of Medinah at last year's PGA. That leaves...Cog Hill maybe, which makes me chuckle every time I hear it mentioned as an Open site. Can you really amp up a course that much when the tour regulars pound it to death every summer at the Western?

That's why I think the USGA is looking for Chicago Lite, and already sort of planning for it with Erin Hills here in Wisconsin. I don't doubt for a minute that WStraits would've been named for a US Open by now if it hadn't cut the deal with the PGA on two majors and a Ryder Cup; Kohler really was pushing them.