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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Test your salesmanship....
« on: June 15, 2007, 04:12:22 PM »
...you need to convince your club board that yes, you need tree removal like Oakmont. But you don't think deep rough, perfectly green grass and lightening fast greens are necessarily good for your club. You may also need to address grass variety issues as well.....

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2007, 06:18:05 PM »
"To be honest in all this excitment I lost track myself, but bein' that this is a .44 magnum the most ..."
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 06:18:41 PM by Tony Muldoon »
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2007, 06:48:25 PM »
Do exactly what Oakmont did.  Remove trees at night.  Eventually, someone will notice after a good portion are gone.  No turning back then.

One thing working at Notre Dame taught me was it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Ken

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2007, 09:30:44 PM »
Joe and Ken,

I have thought about this. It's a big test of leadership! But: is cutting down trees at night "leadership"?

The weirdest thing of all: Tony, someone mentioned that exact phrase to me this afternoon.  Was Dirty Harry on Sky recently?

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 01:27:31 AM »
Joe, I would normaly love this test. However, I am so blessed, I don't need to.

  ;D
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2007, 11:38:09 AM »
Joe and Ken,

I have thought about this. It's a big test of leadership! But: is cutting down trees at night "leadership"?


Mark,

The fact that a golf course of Oakmont's caliber had to resort to such drastic measures is a true indication what most supt. deal with at their own facilities.  Overall turf health, improved airflow and exposure are all great selling points but why do so many people buck these positives to save a tree doing more harm than good?

Broadmoor C.C. in Indianapolis was a great example of this issue, one discussed on here before.  One time strategic bunkering sat in the middle of groves of trees oddly out of place.  It took many years to address their problem despite the obvious fact trees were never an aspect of the course design.

I've never had to deal with making this argument where many on this board have been knee deep in these discussions.  I'd be curious to hear their stories and how they've played out.

Ken

Peter Pallotta

Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2007, 12:40:20 PM »
Joe,

what a neat (but hard) question. I'm not the person able to answer it, for lots of reasons, i.e. I don’t know club politics, and I probably couldn’t sell bottled water in a desert. But, if I get into my best 'salesman' mode, maybe it'd go like this. The guy stands up, walks to the front of the room, slowly looks at all the faces assembled there, and then starts:

"I want our course to be a legacy, and a testament. I want to leave a LEGACY. I want us to take a STAND. There, I've said it. THAT’S what I want. Can I GET it? I don't know. I don't know.  You’ve already read all the REPORTS, you’ve already  read all the FACTS. I know that, and I appreciate it. I appreciate it VERY MUCH, believe me. You ALREADY know what it takes to grow healthy grass, to grow HEALTHY GRASS.  That’s a grass that can SUSTAIN itself, and that can provide us our grounds for golf in good times and in bad. You all know the ECONOMIC benefits of that. You know all about the SUSTAINABILITY issues around that. I don’t have to tell you any of that. I don’t have to tell you that what we NEED is grass that we don’t have to over-WATER and over-FERTILZE. But. But, that’s enough about that. I didn’t have to say ANY of that: you ALL know those facts, and probably much better than I do.

So: is what I said that I want UNREALISTIC? Is it IMPOSSIBLE? I don’t know, I really don’t. I DO know this, though, that it's the most honest thing I could've said to you tonight. The most honest thing I can say to you is this: that what I want MOST OF ALL is for our course to be the legacy that we leave our CHILDREN, and that it be a testament to the fact that on this night in 2007, we, ALL of us sitting in this room, we DID THE RIGHT THING. We did the right thing. We did the RIGHT thing. We did the COURAGEOUS thing. We did the right thing for GOLF. We did the right thing for the FUTURE of golf. We did the right thing for the environment. Don’t blush, please, on that word. The ENVIRONMENT, yes, that’s what I said.  I’m not a SCIENTIST, yes, that’s TRUE. I don’t know all the FACTS, that is CORRECT. But I know THIS: that I‘m a PERSON and a CITIZEN and a FATHER before I’m a GOLFER.  I PLAY on this golf course, but I LIVE in this world. WE LIVE IN THIS WORLD. Excuse me. I apologize for that. I get a little heated up on that subject, and I’m sorry for that. This is maybe not the place for it.

That we did the RIGHT thing. Yes. Most important of all, we did the right thing for OURSELVES, and for THIS GOLF COURSE. Does this at all sound POSSIBLE to you? Does it sound NAIVE? I don't know, I don't know anymore. YOU’LL have to tell me that. But let me ask you something: the GREAT COURSES that you've played, what do you remember about them? What do you really REMEMBER about them? To me, I'm thinking it's probably not the TREES. Am I right? Is that just ME? ‘Cause I've got to be honest: I just can't remember the freaking TREES. Do you, do any of you, remember the TREES on a great golf course?  I can’t. I CAN’T.  No, you see, for ME, I'm probably remembering the great GREENS that were out there, huh? The GREAT GREENS. Those beautifully designed green complexes, those BIG, ROLLING, WONDERFUL greens, that TESTED YOU every time, and every time in a DIFFERENT WAY. It’s just like we’ve got right here. WE HAVE GOT THOSE GREENS RIGHT HERE.

So what else, on the great courses you’ve played, what ELSE do you remember? See, I’m guessing that it’s probably not the ROUGH. Huh? What do you think? Is it the ROUGH that you remember on those great courses? I’m sorry, I’m going to honest, and I hope I don’t OFFEND anyone, but really: if it’s the ROUGH that you remember most about a great golf course, then you’re probably not really a GOLFER. I’m sorry. If it’s ROUGH that you want, you’re not really a PLAYER. Yes, you may PLAY golfer, but you’re not a GOLFER.  And our golf course and our GOLF CLUB is about GOLFERS. It’s about golfers, and it always was and, if we do the right thing tonight it always WILL BE, about golfers.

And what do golfers want? What do they want? Do they maybe want great ROUTINGS? Could THAT be it? Do they want great VISTAS maybe, great big OPEN vistas? Does that sound about right to you? It sounds right to ME, that’s for sure.  Do golfers, REAL golfers, want the game as it was MEANT TO BE PLAYED? You’re damn RIGHT they do. Do they want the game, the SPIRIT OF THE GAME, that their ANCESTORS had, and their ancestors played? You’re damn RIGHT they do. They want it NATURAL. They want WIND. They WANT WIND! Do they want to play the game the way it was INTENDED to be played, on fast, firm fairways that NATURE provides for? Because if the answer is YES, and the answer IS yes, then that’s what you GET. When it RAINS the grass is a little GREENER, and a little softer, and we’re HAPPY about that. And when it DOESN’T RAIN the grass is a little LESS GREEN, and the course plays FIRM and FAST, just like it does in Scotland, just like it ALWAYS did in Scotland, and then we’re happy about THAT. Does the golfer want OPTIONS? Does the golfer want STRATEGY? Does the golfer want to be on a good MATCH PLAY course, where the player who’s a little shorter or a little worse still has a CHANCE against the bigger, younger, stronger player? YES. YES. YES.

That’s what a GOLFER wants. And that’s what I want right HERE. Is that NAÏVE of me, to want that? Is it IMPOSSIBLE, or IMPRACTICAL? Isn’t it exactly what we ALL want? Look, I appreciate you listening to me. Thank you for that. I DO want to IMPRESS you. I do want to SWAY you. I really do. I BELIEVE in this, very deeply. I think it’s the RIGHT And you’ve been all most kind, listening patiently. Thank you. What else can I say? Can I point out what Oakmont did, and how Johnny Miller said it’s maybe now the best course IN THE WORLD? What would that MEAN? Or, should I just say THE OLD COURSE, over and over again. Should I leave you for a minute to think about The Old Course, which is in fact THE greatest course in the world? Should I let you get a picture in your minds of what The Old Course LOOKS LIKE? No. No, I’m not going to do that. I’m not going to do that. What Oakmont’s members did they did for OAKMONT.  I’m happy for Oakmont, but OUR COURSE is what matters to me. The Old Course is magnificent, but we are NOT The Old Course. What we have to decide tonight is what is good for US. What do WE want to have, HERE, at OUR splendid and lovely course.

I think you know what my answer is to that. I hope that you’ll agree with me. I HOPE that you will agree with me. It IS the right thing to do. It is the RIGHT thing to do. I want to leave a legacy, and a testament. I want US to leave a legacy and a testament. It IS possible. It is NOT naïve. I BELIEVE that. I hope you do too. I WANT our course to be that type of course. I hope you do too. Thank you.”                



« Last Edit: June 16, 2007, 12:42:31 PM by Peter Pallotta »

TEPaul

Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2007, 01:22:24 PM »
""To be honest in all this excitment I lost track myself, but bein' that this is a .44 magnum the most ..."


Tony:

My sentiments exactly.

But being i'm such a nice guy I don't think I would take it out and lay it on the table. I think I'd just brush my jacket back a few times and let them see the holstered gun.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2007, 04:19:49 PM »
Peter, Failure to recognize how great that was, would be remiss.

Please don't ever try to sell me anything. I fear I wouldn't be able to say no.

The repitition was brilliant.

Well done!
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Peter Pallotta

Re:Test your salesmanship....
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2007, 11:05:42 PM »
Adam - thank you. I still wasn't sure how it turned out, because it was the "salesman" doing the talking and not me, and you know how salesmen can be when they need to make a sale – and so I appreciate your kind words.  

By the way, it's interesting that you liked it, because I seem to remember reading somewhere that you used to live in Chicago; the speech had a few little hints of Chicago playwright David Mamet in it, but without the talent and the swear words.

Peter