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Jim Nugent

Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2007, 09:20:53 AM »

But Bill, isn't it true that he started winning majors, after his career-long drought, once he hooked up with Pelz?  

If that's true, why would he ditch him?

Is the winning causative or associative?

Phil has in some ways not played as well as he did as an amateur, winning Tucson, winning the Am at Cheery Hills.
As Phil gets more complicated, he does not seem to achieve greater consistency. I think he has done the best when he was simpler in his approach. It might be nice if Pelz really helped, but as we all know help is ephemeral.  In the end it is the mental game.  Phil himself called himself an idiot at WF.  Bad brain, that's all that did that.

As an amateur Phil's short game was ungodly, no better that it is with Pelz, I just don't see it and that's just my O, right or wrong.

p.s. I love to argue.  Ever notice? :)

Is it causative or associative?  Without a double blind placebo study, we'll never know.   ;)

I said that in jest, but Phil himself believes Pelz helps him.  Even if Pelz is only a placebo, so what?  Placebos often have a positive effect.  Since he is now winning majors for the 1st time, why would Phil risk changing his winning strategy?    

tlavin

Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2007, 09:26:36 AM »
Pels is helping Lefty, but the guy he really should be talking to is Stan Utley.  Heck, forget Phil, if Sergio would take Utley on as a short-game coach, he'd be ranked in the top 5.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2007, 09:28:43 AM »
What do you think the players' responses would be if the USGA or Oakmont said, "Okay. let's mow this green a little less, it has more slope so it needs to roll slower" and "Let's speed up this one, it can take it"?

It would make the Shinnecock, Olympic, and Southern Hills complaints look like absolutely nothing. And rightfully so.

I guess Phil and DP also feel they should remove contour and pitch from the greens to make them more fair.

The scientist in me applauds Dave Pelz for his approach, but please think about what he says before concluding he is infallible. If you want a clear example, read what he says about left hand low putting. If you can't see the glaring error, read it again!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 09:30:56 AM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

tlavin

Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2007, 09:33:32 AM »
I think the USGA mowed two greens to a different (higher because of slope) height at Southern Hills a few years back.  At Olympia, they had us rebuild two greens because of slope.  If they just had us cut the greens differently we would still have our original greens.  The ones that replaced them have been nothing but trouble.

Bottom line, this is the Open and players will whine like toddlers.  But remember, USGA stands for "U Still Golfed Anyway"!

Jim Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2007, 10:24:57 AM »
This statement by Mickelson pretty much sums up what I dislike about the general mentality of tour players.  

The comment sounds insightful, especially coming from one of golf's best players, and the media treats it as such, but it's conclusion is so obvious that any half brained ninny could have arrived at the same conclusion even if he was not a golfer. Greens prepares identically will perform differently depending on their locations. Duh.

This "insight" was (is) the argument against the stimpmeter. The argument goes that it is the players responsibility to know how to read and react to green conditions. Let me tell a brief story to illustrate.

Former USGA President Bill Campbell introduced the stimpmeter to a greenkeeper at a course he played in Scotland. Campbell told the man that with this device, he could manage the greens so that thay rolled a consistant speed, one green to the next. The man replied, "why on earth, Mr. Campbell, would anyone want to do that?"

We seem to be in a period of time in the game where we are trying to take uncertainty out of this great enterprise. An example of this is the proliferation of the use of preferred lies. Under the guise of "fairness," i.e., one might get mud glopped onto his ball in wet conditions which might causer the next shot to veer off line, we also get to lift out ball out of divots, from behind trees, or even from the rough into the fairway. This effort, though not organized, is driven by the tour and attitudes of tour players, exemplified by Mickelson's quotation.

Golf is a game where one hits a ball with a stick across uncertain ground and in uncertain conditions, with a certain result. That seems to me to be the very root of what we do and why we do it. Lose that, and we lose the soul of our game.

"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Michael Christensen

Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2007, 05:15:40 PM »
Phil had another set of statements today.....all of which I believe are totally out of line.  This crap that he dreamed of playing and winning a US Open and the course setup caused an injury is a joke.    I know members at Oakmont and this course setup is equivalent to anything you will see for the major member tournaments.  He should blame Oakmont, not the USGA.  I've lost a lot of respect for Phil after all this crying.  :'(

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2007, 05:31:25 PM »
Michael,

What your saying is, that Oakmont did nothing special to prepare for a US Open? This is what the members experience nearly all summer? (Rough takes time to get that deep, after all...how many "major member tournaments" do they host each and every year?)

Heckuva maintenance meld they have, that all they need to do is deploy bleachers and broadcast technology to host a major.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2007, 05:42:22 PM »
Joe, many people have stated that Oakmont is one of the few clubs in the world where they could hold a major on a few days notice, any time.

Of course, those same folks have no idea how much rain we get in the Burgh, spring and fall! Fortunately, we have the Stillers holding a bunch of majors every fall and winter.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2007, 05:53:31 PM »
George,

Do they have Mike Davis (USGA setup guy?) on retainer?  :P

OK, all sarcasm aside, I stand corrected....... :)

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

redanman

Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2007, 06:16:29 PM »
Re: Phil

Still whining like a 6-year old girl.  Phil, It's just not your year.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2007, 10:18:27 PM »
Re: Phil

Still whining like a 6-year old girl.  Phil, It's just not your year.

I try to give Phil the benefit of the doubt...

But you had to watch his mannerisms on TV as he was whining and crying.  It was unbelieveable, slumping his shoulders, rolling his eyes, pouting, darting his eyes around the media center looking for someone to agree with him.  he had an awesome major cut streak, but a bombed driver on Cabrerras 18th hole doomed him for the weekend.

Jeff Evagues

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Phil's comments today
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2007, 03:26:48 AM »
When I first read of Phil hurting himself from extensive practice in the rough my first thought was why doesn't he practice shots to keep himself out of the rough?
Be the ball

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