[Ally Mcintosh]

OK, this may seem like the most obvious of questions but I seem to have got myself into an argument...

...We're talking about the oldest golf course in the world played over more or less the same routing... Does Musselburgh count or has it changed too much?... even if it hasn't changed, is it actually older than St. Andrews?... Where does North Berwick fit in?... some places claim that this is the second oldest golf course after TOC...

Please put me out of my misery... I have too much conflicting information floating around my head to be objective...

[Doug Bolls]

There does seem to be some conflicting info about this topic - I have found in Scotland that it depends where you are and who you ask.
This website might be helpful:

http://www.scottishgolfhistory.net/oldest_golf_sites.htm

DB

[Phil McDade]

I'd certainly argue for the North Inch in Perth.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Musselburgh thinks it's them:

[G Jones]

Nobody knows which location is the oldest on which people have continuously played golf... we just know (as per that website) which locations it was first recorded at... often in church or law records... it almost certainly had been played for a number of years before it cropped up in any local records.

As far as a location in which the routing stayed roughly the same... I would imagine the records don't exist to know with any certainty, and the courses way back when were completely different... even at st andrews there used to be more and or less than 18 holes at various times... it's not something I'd lose much sleep over :-)

[Ally Mcintosh]

but i do lose sleep when i'm trying to win an argument...

i know that montrose, carnoustie, perth, dunbar, st andrews, musselburgh, leith, bruntsfield etc... could all lay claim to having had golf played on their land for centuries... i just want someone to tell me that TOC has a better claim than musselburgh to actually having an older living breathing golf course that essentially holds the same values...

...lie if you have to  
 

[Ulrich Mayring]

The oldest record of Golf in St Andrews is from 1552. One argument that Golf might have been played way before then, centers on the University of St Andrews. It is the oldest in Scotland and was founded in 1413. We know for a fact that Golf was a popular pasttime in the academic field.

This argument sounds far-fetched from today's point of view, but you have to consider that the only people who could actually afford wasting hours on the links were those, who didn't have to work a lot. And that applied to the nobility and the academics.

Ulrich

[Brian_Ewen]

Ally
I will confuse things further and say its your Hometown  

The first recorded mention of a golf hole was in 1625 when a local record about military exercises mentions , "in the principal parts of the links betwixt the first hole and the Queens hole"

[Which would be Cadonas now ? ]

Now considering the argument that you cant call it golf unless it has a hole , then Aberdeen has the oldest recorded golf course .

And no , I have no idea what James VI was doing with receipts for golf clubs bought from a Perth Bowmaker in 1502 .

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