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CHrisB

Before playing Erin Hills in the USAPL qualifier this past weekend, I had read a few short reviews of the course and had seen a few pictures that convinced me to travel all the way from Austin TX to play.

I had also read Brad Klein's review which was less than glowing:
Quote
Errant Hills Award: Erin Hills, Hartford, Wisc. A much-ballyhooed new co-design of Golf Digest architecture editor Ron Whitten and professional designers Michael Hurdzan and Dana Fry. Too bad it opened a season early in late 2006, though inadequate fescue turf cover is the least of this sprawling daily fee’s problems. The U.S. Golf Association heralds it as a likely future U.S. Open site, but the routing is a mess, in large part because Whitten insisted on moving no dirt at all – thereby taking trendy “minimalism” to its absurd extreme. The raw site is great, but half a dozen holes are inexcusably awkward and much of the bunkering is overexcavated and unmaintainable. The 593-yard par-5 10th hole offers a blind, fall away Biarritz green; the short par-4 second putting surface ends before it begins; and the completely blind par-3 seventh “Dell Hole” plays up and over to the bottom of a vast taco shell. They should have thought “inside the bun” on this one.

After playing 3 rounds, and with respect, I can hardly believe this review--talk about looking for and focusing on the negative! True, as a new course there are some maintenance issues with the bunkers and surrounds, and there is still some grow-in needed (a few holes had GUR in the fairways), but I just can't understand the criticism of the routing, and I happened to really like each of the holes that Klein singled out as being awkward. Of course Erin Hills will need to mature and work out a kink or two before hosting a major amateur or professional championship, but such an overwhelmingly negative review based on a first visit in the first half-season of the course's opening seems unfair to me.

The course was quite walkable (the tournament committee put Irish flags to mark the walkways we needed to take to get to the next tee box), although we did receive shuttle rides from #4 to #5, #9 to #10, and #18 to the clubhouse. And what a walk! Just an inspiring place to play golf.

The greens were excellent--they were cut down to a quick speed and played firm so that a ball mark barely dented the surface of the green. But one minor problem was that, with the fairways left long to allow the fescue to grow in, it was sometimes difficult to control the spin on the approach shots, which made holes like #3, #8, #9, and #18 harder. On #9 for example, it was playing downwind, so from a hairy lie in the fairway, it was hard to fly the approach onto the green (no run-up option really exists there) and stop it without using the backstop back left and risking leaving it up there. On #18, again downwind, they didn't even attempt to have a pin on the left side of that green.

The course was set up between 7000 and 7100 yards, with many tees moved far up (obviously for pace of play)--strange to look back and see tees stretching 60-70 yards behind you. There was generally plenty of room to play, but spotters were used on 12 of the holes because the tall native grasses were pretty thick in spots.

I really liked #3, #4, #8, #9, #11, #12, #15 and #17. The par 5's didn't blow me away but I thought they were nice enough, and I liked the set of par 3's (we played the Dell Hole instead of the Bye Hole).

I counted 10 blind or semi-blind full shots, which combined with the higher native grasses, would make it difficult for every day play (a lot of searches). But the only really awkward situation we encountered was on the par-3 16th, where a couple of us pulled our shots, which flirted with the higher grasses on the hill left, so we hit provisional balls only to walk up the green and find that the balls had bounced down the hill onto the green, not visible from the tee.

I also thought that some of the back back tees would be impractical to ever be put into use--#3 and #8 at 535 yards to elevated, contoured greens; #6 at 242 yards to a green running away, #9 at 521 yards to an elevated all-carry green, etc.

But overall I thought it was a fantastic golf course--certainly WAY more going for it than you would ever believe reading Klein's review--and I really like that they moved so little earth there. If you take holes like #2 or #12, it's a much different and better question to have to ask "Why did the architect run the fairway between or over those dunes?" than "Why did the architect put those mounds there?" Just knowing the landforms were already there and that the architects found a way to incorporate them automatically elevates the course for me over something like Whistling Straits, which I visited on the trip and which felt entirely too "man-made" and over-the-top to me.

I think it is a no-brainer to take the U.S. Amateur to Erin Hills (Washington County, an Arthur Hills design, would be the 2nd course for stroke play qualfiying)--any quirkiness or fairness issues go away in match play--but for the U.S. Open I'm not sure. I hope it happens, but I wonder about some of the green contours (how could you play the 3rd, 8th, or 15th greens at U.S. Open speed?).

For the record, the medalist scored 140 (-4), and three other guys earned spots by shooting 143 (-1) or better. But they could have set it up where 156 could medal. Unfortunately I was not one of those who qualified. But I glad I made the trip and definitely plan to return as soon as I can.

P.S.--I also got to play Lawsonia Links, which I also thoroughly enjoyed. Between Erin Hills, Lawsonia, Whistling Straits, Blackwolf Run, Milwaukee CC, etc., you guys up in southeast Wisconsin have it good!

Dan Kelly

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Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2007, 01:26:05 PM »
Quote
... the completely blind par-3 seventh “Dell Hole” plays up and over to the bottom of a vast taco shell. They should have thought “inside the bun” on this one.

Haven't played Erin Hills, so can't comment -- but that's a terrific line!

I for one find it refreshing to read a hard-edged review of a new, heralded course -- even if, were I to get there, it turned out I disagreed completely.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Brent Hutto

Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 01:31:23 PM »
Dan,

I guess one man's refreshing is another's puerile and mean spirited. Now if Klein's impressions are indeed accurate it's a relatively minor thing that he embellishes his review with lame insult humor. But if the course is actually something other than a monstrosity, as suggested by Chris's experience there, the review is both useless and needlessly insulting.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2007, 01:45:12 PM »
It is very interesting how this course is generating such a wide disparity of opinions.  Is that a good sign or a bad one?  

I recently was told by someone I very much respect that the course is a wasted opportunity, somewhat in the line of Klein's observations.  Yet, others I know and respect thought it is a winner.  

I suppose I'll get there eventually.  But, the need for ball spotters, the native grass descriptions and such, looms ominous for my  12 handicap abilities.  

Might this be something like Bethpage Black (an open venue) where they ought to post a sign saying this course is restricted to players with XX handicap, and is not intended for play by players of less skill?  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Voytek Wilczak

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2007, 01:53:27 PM »
Calling the course Errant Hills, while perhaps clever in the use of language, is pretty nasty.

To me, that diminishes the value of the review to the point that I am inclined to totally ignore it.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 02:00:01 PM »
Brent --

A few thoughts:

If you go to Erin Hills and conclude that Klein's impressions are terribly wrong-headed (puerile, mean-spirited, etc.), you can feel free, from that point on, to disregard Klein's impressions of golf courses.

If you go to Erin Hills and conclude that Klein's impressions are right on the money, you can look with increased confidence and respect at his impressions of other golf courses from then on.

The point I was trying to make was: I'm tired of "critics" (in every field) who shave all of the hard edges off their opinions, so as not to give offense.

Klein is taking that chance there -- and, so long as he is expressing his honest opinions, I applaud him for it ... even if he is 100% wrong.

--------------

There was a famous episode during the Carter years, when the President gave a nationwide address. Was it the famous "malaise" speech? I can't remember -- and right now, here, it doesn't matter.

The Boston Globe wrote an editorial about the speech that night, to run in the next day's paper. Some wag on the Editorial Page staff headlined the editorial "More Mush From the Wimp." That was an inside line, for intramural amusement -- and not intended for publication.

If I'm remembering this right, more than 150,000 copies of the next day's Globe got out there before someone caught the boner -- and the headline was changed to "All Must Share the Burden."

What I'm saying is: Too many reviews of golf courses (and other creative endeavors) are as lifeless as "All Must Share the Burden." And to my way of thinking, way too few have the forcefulness of "More Mush From the Wimp."

Feel free to consider me puerile and mean-spirited. Everyone's a critic! (And, of course, that's just the way it should be.)

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 02:14:11 PM »
Calling the course Errant Hills, while perhaps clever in the use of language, is pretty nasty.

Just guessing here, because I haven't seen this in context, but ...

"Errant Hills Award" has the ring of one of those mini-headings (usually "comic") used in usually comic, often smart-aleck end-of-the-year roundups, a la Esquire's "Dubious Achievements."

Might not be your cup of tea, but I suspect that the context would make it less "nasty."

Brad Klein could tell us if I'm right.

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

John Kavanaugh

Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 02:28:51 PM »
Brad's review was the second paw thrown in a fight.  The context of the article was humor.

Neal_Meagher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2007, 02:29:37 PM »
While I will fully admit I haven't seen the course at all, several things here got my attention.

First, while Brad Klein's review was...forceful...and perhaps not what some would think fair, etc. I agree with Dan Kelly that it is at least refreshing to read something with guts to it and real feelings.  But educated feelings far from just snorting "it sucks" which is a term that I'm sure the esteemed Mr. Huntley also would agree has taken too much of a hold on our language.  But, I digress.

While I always, always prefer the unvarnished truth, both in reviews of golf courses and in polite conversation, this review of Erin Hills is also indicative of the unwillingness of almost everyone to understand that what they see of a golf course upon opening is just its first act.  The owner, builder and architect strive like the dickens to get everything right the first time out, of course.  Of course.  Yet when we all look back on the grainy b & w photos of the revered courses we all marvel at the many ways they have evolved over the years.  

Does this mean that that Mackenzie fellow, or that Crump guy just didn't get it right the first time?  No, not at all, just that they created the appropriate framework from which the golf course could gracefully grow old and be tinkered with ad infinitum.  This isn't a bad thing, in my opinion, and in fact it makes the creation of a golf course unlike the creation of any other type of sporting ground in that these grounds can be altered, not always for the better, but  more often than not these "after market" adjustments do make for a better experience.  

Knocking down that ridge a little there, pushing that bunker back up the hill a little more there, pumping up that contour there, etc.  Try doing this with a tennis court.
The purpose of art is to delight us; certain men and women (no smarter than you or I) whose art can delight us have been given dispensation from going out and fetching water and carrying wood. It's no more elaborate than that. - David Mamet

www.nealmeaghergolf.com

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2007, 02:39:40 PM »
What confuses me is that even in this glowing review by Chris, he cites flaws that are inherent in Errant Hills.
Others I've spoken to have intimated to similar flaws but add that once corrected EH will be top notch.

I just don't get that?

Why weren't these flaws(mistakes) taken care of prior to their opening?

From the pictures Jason and others have posted, I'm having a hard time distinguishing between what's on the ground. JakaB's "monochromatic" seemed like a good place to start.

The pictures also make it look like there's a classic cut to the fairway, unless that's the roughlines. There's also somethig about the scale that doesn't translate in the photos. Can anyone help describe the course better?

There was also a comment someone picked up on in relation to how long the routing took. Is the routing the crux of Dr.Klein's criticism?

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2007, 02:43:43 PM »
Neal --

Seems to me that Brad Klein is attempting to play a role (without portfolio) in the course's second act. For at least three holes, he provides very specific opinions about what's wrong with them -- and, as he certainly knows, could be "fixed."

As for your tennis analogy: That might make tennis a helluva lot more interesting!

Dan
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jeff Goldman

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Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2007, 02:45:12 PM »
Chris,

Was the pin put on the ends of the Biarritz on 10 in any of the rounds?  When I played, it appeared that the hold could only be cut in the swale because of the slopes, which was a bit odd.

Jeff Goldman
That was one hellacious beaver.

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2007, 03:29:45 PM »
I played at Erin Hills last weekend too.  I will post some detailed thoughts tonight when I get some time.  

Jeff,  

Just to prove the idiots at golfclubatlas wrong they had the pin on the front of 10 on day one.  It offers a pretty small target to hold the green from any distance (my wedge was repelled off the green when I pulled it a little left) but it worked and has more interest putting on the front with the various slopes than what is available in the swale.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2007, 03:37:57 PM »
A couple of thoughts -

Brad has similar ideas about the bunkers at the Quarry, so he is consistent.  I think he likes the traditional look more than the ultra rugged look.

I think he has also stated in the past that there is no reason to be a minimalist for minimalisms sake.  Its great, but good golf holes are better.  Still consistent.

I think he felt Ron got too involved, possibly overriding the judgement of the "professional designers" of the project.  Perhaps he is letting us know his true feelings about all the outsiders getting involved in architecture?  After all, he was involved with his hometown course and Pete Dye, and perhaps that experience showed him how little he knew about getting a course built, despite all he knew about architecture?

Naturally, I have to back him up on that one!  I think one of the problems of this site is that too many think that golf design is "easy" if you have read )or written) a few books.

Or maybe he just feels that the routing, which has some gimmicks, might have been done more traditionally, without the bye hole, for instance?

Of course, it would be easy to say that he is jealous of the the other writers now involved in the golf design biz - didn't he also give Rustic a lukewarm review?  Or was that Ron?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 03:46:47 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Rich Goodale

Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2007, 03:45:26 PM »
Dan

Was that Carter address the one where he called OPEC's raising of prices the "moral equivalent of war?"  One of my colleagues at the time dubbed it the MEOW speech.....

Rich

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2007, 03:54:53 PM »
Jeff B.,

Hope all's well.
 
I like to believe Brad, who's a friend of mine, is NOT the jealous type.

In fact, I'm pretty sure he's out at Bandon this week with Doak, Urbina and Bahto working on a very interesting design project that some others might be jealous over  ;)
jeffmingay.com

CHrisB

Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2007, 04:04:28 PM »
Adam,

In a fair review I think you have to say what you liked and also what could be improved, and not have it all one way or the other. And no course is 100% great or 100% terrible, and rare is the course that is un-improvable on opening day.

BTW, I don't know if the scale of Erin Hills can be captured in pictures. You would need a 3-D view to get the idea of what's going on out there.

Dan Kelly,

I too demand that critics give hard-edged reviews and opinions, but only when they offer a balanced review of the course's merits. It's one thing to say "The raw site is great, there are several thrilling and unique holes, and the course has tremendous potential once it grows in, but several holes are awkward, the bunkers are borderline unmaintainable, and the Dell Hole 7th looks like it sits inside a giant taco shell." It's another to say what Klein said. Can you tell from the review if there was anything he liked at all?

In Brad's blurb, there is only one positive phrase, "the raw site was great", but that is immediately followed by "but the routing is a mess" which gives the impression that the only positive thing about the course was ruined. If it was an attempt at humor, then OK but I still don't think it is fair.

I feel the same about Tom Doak's reviews in the Confidential Guide. I enjoy and get more out of the more balanced reviews than I do the one-sided (esp. negative) ones.

Jeff,

The pin on #10 was cut in the back section on the practice round day, on the front on day 1, and in the middle on day 2. There really was plenty of room on both the front and back sections, though they are both effectively domed and elusive targets. Still, with a short club for the approach it was not over the top.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2007, 04:06:56 PM »
Maybe Brad just didn't like the course, minimalistic or not, details or big picture. He doesn't strike me as the petty type, "striking back at Whitten", especially given how few people would even pick up on the whole relation.

* I should probably add that, given the many disparate opinions that Dick Daley noted, Erin Hills is waaaaaaaaaay up on my wish list. :) It might even by my #1 or #2 realistic option.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 04:11:06 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2007, 04:18:52 PM »
Chris,

Do you remember how long 10 was playing?  Seems to me it might have been the yellow tee at 572 but since we had to turn the cards in I'm not sure.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2007, 04:19:10 PM »
Dan

Was that Carter address the one where he called OPEC's raising of prices the "moral equivalent of war?"  One of my colleagues at the time dubbed it the MEOW speech.....

Rich

Still don't know, but found this -- in Felicity Barringer's obit (5/14/1999) for Washington Post editorialist Meg Greenfield:

"In 1980, she wrote a mock lament to the knee-jerk excesses of her chosen profession. The piece was inspired by an embarrassing mistake at The Boston Globe that let a joke headline, 'More Mush From the Wimp,' sneak into the newspaper over an editorial about a speech by President Jimmy Carter. After 100,000 copies were on the street, it was replaced with the headline 'All Must Share the Burden.''

" 'That's the part that got us,' Miss Greenfield wrote. 'All Must Share the Burden.' She continued: 'Just put us in the presence of that headline and, we can't help ourselves, we start automatically and compulsively writing the editorial that goes with it. It's all about how men of good will should cease the bootless acrimony as there can be no winners in this tragic dispute and the biggest losers of all will be -- are you ready? -- well, of course, the nation's children.'

"She added: 'When the end of the world finally comes about and editorial writers are all called to judgment, it won't be the headline pranks run amok, that sort of thing, that will get us. No, it will be all those other miles of editorial prose that fit so nicely under the headline 'All Must Share the Burden' for which we will, collectively, fry.' "

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

CHrisB

Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2007, 04:26:35 PM »
Dan,

It was the 575-yard tee, but we may have been toward the front of that tee box, and of course with the wind helping it played a little shorter than that.

I thought the par 5's were all pretty long--I suppose you could go for #10 but it didn't seem worth it to me. Really makes it important to hit the fairway off the tee in order to set up a reasonable third shot.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2007, 04:33:25 PM »
For the record, I have only toured EH, in a cold misty rain before flags were cut, etc.  I wasn't sure I could find which hole was which without the card.  So, Brad may have a few valid points. The 10th was hard to figure out as a golf hole.

He does raise a valid question for discussion - what's wrong with moving a little dirt to get some very practical benefits - closer green to tee walks, vision, whatever?  Why minimalism for minimalism's sake?  While I don't know that EH suffers from it based on my tour, I ask the same question over and over again!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2007, 04:56:32 PM »
Jeff,

Yours is a great question.

While I'd err on the side of utilizing native ground where possible, there's definitely nothing wrong with moving dirt (as long as there is money available to do so). Frankly, not doing so where things are comparatively awkward for golf (and money is available) must be considered an architectural mistake.

I'm NOT saying, either, that Erin Hills is "minimalism gone to the extreme (wrong)"; 'cause I haven't seen the course. But I do think the so-called minimalist philosophy has potential to be misinterpreted to the point where good golf is sacrificied, here and there.  

Not to self-promote (at all), but I recently wrote on this very subject at my blog: http://mingaygolf.blogspot.com/2007/04/blackhawk-minimalist-naturalist-or.html
jeffmingay.com

Adam Clayman

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Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2007, 04:56:44 PM »
The positive aspect will be the lessons learned and hopefully solved on future projects.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Rob_Waldron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Brad Klein's review of Erin Hills -- I couldn't disagree more
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2007, 04:58:50 PM »
Maybe the course is too difficult for the handicap challenged. Brad has never considered himself an accomplished golfer. I am looking forward to playing Erin Hills in early August.