Limp Wristed in Pennsy

[Adam Clayman]

Looks like Oakmont's USGA set-up has caused another wrist injury.

Is this ridiculous notion of growing long rough within the spirit of the sport?

Will physical injury wake up the committee to the error of their ways?

Lord knows intellegent argument hasn't swayed them.

[Justin_Zook]

Who was the next casualty?

[Jeff Doerr]

Justin,

That would be David Howell. Phil's injury is also looking pretty serious.

I agree with Adam here and hope this will wake up the USGA. Imagine what would happen if Tiger had a wrist injury from the rough and had to withdraw. Maybe if Phil really can't go he will be enough to start some change.

My simple vote is bunker prep. Lower the rough a bit and go to the style that Fownes championed. At this point a bunker is no longer a hazard, but a haven of safety for the pros.

[John Kavanaugh]

I wore long pants yesterday in a charity outing because I feel it looks more professional in a work environment and less golfy.  It was in the low 80's and I did sweat but managed to get though the pain.  

[Jim_Kennedy]

Adam,
I'm reminded of the 7 iron Tiger hit out of the hay at PB, an incredible shot.

I'm not defending the set-ups, but players won't take their medicine and 'chip' it out of the very deep and thick rough.

[RJ_Daley]

They don't put spikes protruding from the boards during the Stanley Cup to make it more difficult and painful for the players, to try to promote a game of skating skill and passing talent on the middle of the ice only.  You shouldn't set up a competition venue that has the high potential to injure your talent.  

You should reward the skill of the shot making ability.  Yes, a half shot penalty from rough that you can actually play from is fine.  A rough that may only allow a couple yard advancement at the risk of injury is stupid.  It doesn't take much talent to break a wrist or strain the ligaments to hit it 10 yards.  Jose Olathbal showed you can willingly injure yourself at a US Open merely by punching your locker, if that is your goal.  Who needs untenable 8" thick rough to do that?  

Those that have to qualify to get in the US Open play on venues that have no relation to the ultimate torture chamber that the actual tournament requires.  So, what is the test to get in?  You play great golf at a course that isn't an architorture chamber of horrors, then how do you use or relate those demonstrated golf skills to qualify, to compete at the ultimate venue?

Institutionalizing the "mind set" of the "typical" US Open set-up is like placing a premium on recalcitrant traditions without regard to those who provide the show.  Is it a gladiator sport they want?

[Kalen Braley]

They don't put spikes protruding from the boards during the Stanley Cup to make it more difficult and painful for the players, to try to promote a game of skating skill and passing talent on the middle of the ice only.  You shouldn't set up a competition venue that has the high potential to injure your talent.  

So RJ,

Does this mean that in the NFL, all the stars should just wrap flag belts on and make a rule that you can't tackle/sack the stars of the league, but must pull a flag from thier belt to down them??  

[Adam Clayman]

Jim,
 The perception is that the rough this year will push the envelope. (I can't wait for a credible analysis and description) Calling Dr. Howard Dr. Klein Dr. Howard

And, From the look of the conditioning at Oakmont I suspect it's lush and dense.

 If any of these injuries (and I assume there's more just not reported) are career ending to anyone of these professionals, or even worse, a highly skilled amateur...

Will this pathos have an impact on those in a position to decide set-up?

BTW, the Tiger hay you are talking about was the shot on the top of that bunker on #6 on Sat.?

If so, I can tell you that those eyebrows were very long but, not lush (dense) strands of grass.  

Isn't there a balance between the density and the length of the US Open rough that would make certain venue mats play at 3" at their maximum length, harder than some mats at 5"?

[RJ_Daley]

Kalen, they absolutely have written and unwritten rules in NFL to protect the talent.  Particularly, any questionable runs at the QB.  And, what do you think the NHL league would have done to a Scott Stevens had he applied one of his famous knock-out crossing at mid-ice hits to a Wayne Gretzky?  All sports I can think of, except these new cage fighting gladiator type games, protect their talent to some degree.  

While golf is still not a contact sport, this extreme mentality of rough does not take into consideration the potential to the most vulnerable part of the talents bodies, the wrist and back.  One of these days, Tiger will take that mightly swing from the rough that we all love to see and marvel at, but he will be one year older, a little more brittle, and then the catastrophe will strike.  When you take those sort of mightly lashes, catastrophic musculo-skeletal failure is a serious potential, I think.  I'd differ to Dr. Vostinak for more insight.

[Matt_Cohn]

No Adam, it was the shot up the hill in the 2nd round from right of the fairway near the cliff - about 190 yards.

I agree that I don't like the idea of rough so thick it can injure people. It just seems wrong.

[John Kavanaugh]

This complaint reminds me of the guys who invoke a root rule.  The pros can always take an unplayable if they are concerned about injury.  This is exactly why the only time I don't wear my now 25 yr old watch is when I golf.  Slp, shr, sex and sht...but no golf because it is just to violent.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Adam,
The shot was at the 5th hole, where he hit a 205 yd 7-iron from 5" rough. It was lush, not sparse.

My right wrist remembers hitting a shot from very sparse, but very long, *fescue while playing at Shennecosett GC in Groton. It was so sparse that I could see my ball when I was 30' away from it. Today I would pitch it out as easily as I could and try to recover with my next shot.

Once again, I'm not defending the set-ups, only saying that there are options available to avoid injury.

*Looked something like this, although this is not SGC

[Adam Clayman]

Jim, It would be hard for it to have been the fifth. I believe it was the 6th.

[John Kavanaugh]

Adam,

You have seen me hit left handed shots to avoid injury to both myself and the course.  Would you remove even one Yucca plant at Ballyneal if I had cut my legs or hands?  I don't believe that short of some climbs up to an elevated tee a golfer is ever forced into peril.

[erichunter]

I agree with Adam here and hope this will wake up the USGA. Imagine what would happen if Tiger had a wrist injury from the rough and had to withdraw.

Actually this already did happen at Shinnecock at '95.  Don't recall if it was the rough or something else but he did suffer some type of wrist injury that forced his WD.

[RJ_Daley]

If JK's point is that any golfer-competitor can take an unplayable lie at any time, of course that is true.  Yes, on isolated occasions, a golfer may find a yucca at BallyNeal.  But, it is enough of a rarity that it is part of the game and part of the rules, and the drop on a line back from the pin can ussually be taken at a reasonable distance from the yucca to keep the game going.

What if every hole at Oakmont had 20% of the players missing the FW and half of them needing such an unplayable lie drop.  There is generally no where to drop near the ball that is equally unplayable or presents the potential for same possible wrist injury.  Would you have 1 in every 5 or 10 players taking such drops on every hole?  Where is the interest or test of golf and shot making in that?  So, the alternative is that probably 1 in 10 players per hole will try to hack it out and probably will either get barely out, or could pay the price in pain and injury.  

How many times do we see guys called out as a wussy when they hesitate to do something risky and are just trying to be prudent and safe?  That is always a juvenile suckers game when the dare and double dare is issued by the taunters.  How does the willingness to risk these injuries reflect on who the best golfer may be?  

[John Kavanaugh]

Golf at the level of a US Open competitor is no longer a hobby.  The risk of hurting your wrist in even eight inch rough must be weighed I agree.  If one feels it is too dangerous a situation all you could hope is that a worthy alternate could get a shot.  

[RJ_Daley]

Measuring the heart of a competitor is always a component of identifying a champion.  I agree.  But, how many punch drunk fighters have no champion's belt?  But they had the heart and willingness to box longer than was prudent, so they are where on you list of greats? Can you name any of them?

Venturi measured a risk, sucked it up and finished a gruelling championship day while flirting with medical disaster in the heat.  He won.  If he had collapsed and fried his brain and ended his life or at least his career, would you know his name?  Floppy McChokelstein may have a serious wrist problem now.  If he shows you his heart, wrecks his wrist and fails to win, will you build him a shrine in your back yard for his display of heart?    

[John Kavanaugh]

I would build a golden calf and make love to a salt lick before I would kneel before a shrine to any golfer.  I can't believe we are debating the dangers of golf at a US Open level.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam,

It's difficult to thin out the rough from April to Mid June in the Northeast.

Currently, it's very difficult and none of the golf courses are preparing for the U.S. Open

I would ask you and others how you would compare the rough at the U.S. Opens to the Heather and Gorse and rough at the British Opens ?

Is there a distinction ?

While British Open courses used to have wider playing corridors they seem to have narrowed them in recent years.

[JR Potts]

I would build a golden calf and make love to a salt lick before I would kneel before a shrine to any golfer.  I can't believe we are debating the dangers of golf at a US Open level.

Well said.

Winner gets what......1.5 million?
Guy that barely makes the cut gets what.......20k?

What do guys on special teams in the NFL make?

A professional golfer might hurt his wrist hitting from a place he wasn't supposed to hit it.....boo-frickin-hoo.

[Matt_Cohn]

[Mike Hendren]

The yucca plant is natural.  The rough at Oakmont is cultivated.  I can think of nothing more artificial than rough that would cause a risk of injury.  

Where's the hue and cry over the debacle at Oakmont?
If the architecture's so damned good, why do they have to resort to gimmicks?  (Frankly, I wonder by Fownes needed over 300 bunkers at Oakmont when The Good Doctor only required 27 at Augusta National Golf Club, but I realize that is a provincial redneck cheapshot.)

The analogies being used on this thread in support of the rough are the most tenuous I have ever read on this web-site.  The only comment I have to John, Ryan et al is bless you hearts.  

Surely there must be some classical quote among the books in my modest golf library about rough as an architectural element, but I don't have time to look for a needle in the haystack.  

Everybody loves lambasting Hootie and the boys down at Augusta, but they've got it in spades over the USGA.  In spades.  

I just hope none of the participants are accidentally shot by Claudine Longet.

What a farce.

Mike

BTW, my money's on John Daly.  Undoubtedly his wrists have been strengthed by repetitive 12 oz. curls.

[John Kavanaugh]

One thing I am sure the founders of Oakmont never believed in was that an errant driver of the ball would be given a break.  To quote a famous southern general...I would rather die a thousand deaths then take the driving game for Grant-ed at Oakmont.

[Adam Clayman]

I would ask you and others how you would compare the rough at the U.S. Opens to the Heather and Gorse and rough at the British Opens ?

Is there a distinction ?

Patrick, Surely the gorse is not immediately next to the fairways.

JakaPotts-
The purse and pussy comments are irrelevant. Tricky up the golf course to the point of NO RECOVERY is the antithesis of quality entertainment unless Schadenfreude is at the root of their immaturity.