[John Kavanaugh]

What is so wrong with knowing you are going to love a course before you ever see it?  Do we ever owe an architect or friend that much?  Have you ever gone into a course knowing you were going to love it and came away vostinacked?

[Andy Troeger]

John,
I've found expectations are a two way street. Courses that meet expectations (goor or bad) all of a sudden become "the best (worst) course I've ever played" while those that do not tend to be vastly over (under) rated.

There's no way around expectations, its not like you're going to have the same expecations of Pacific Grove as you are Pebble Beach for example. If you're playing a golf course with the intent of analyzing its architecture, however, I think the end results will improve the more the expectations can be minimized and the experience itself maximized.

[redanman]

Why yes, I have.

[Tom_Doak]

John:

I think it would be great if one could seek out every new course with a positive attitude.

For me, marketing gets in the way of that.  Some courses are so thoroughly over-marketed that by the time you are going to see them you just want to dislike them.  And while some get the benefit of the doubt because of a favored architect, others are considered skeptically in advance when they are designed by an architect whose work has not inspired you in the past.  It would be great to go to a new course and not know who the architect is, but you have to live in a cave to accomplish that nowadays.

I opened the Alaska Airlines magazine this morning on my way from Montana to Seattle and saw my own name staring at me in an ad for Remington Ranch (Wicked Pony).  I turned away quickly -- I am starting to get sick of myself!

[cary lichtenstein]

I must be pretty open minded in that I am always looking forward to playing new courses that have I have researched and been recommended.

Sometimes I am pleasantly surprised like the Old White redo at Greenbriar and sometimes I don't like the course and rarely, but on some occassions, fail to complete the round and go in.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I decided a long time ago to have a positve attitude when i play a new course.  Periodically, however, I find that difficult to ignore the hype of a course.  Sometimes the hype tends  to sour my attitude.  Last week I played Bethpagae Black.  I tried to have a positive attitude but the over-hype of the course had soured my attitude.  Playing the course, however, changed my mind.  I loved it.  It just reiterated my previous thought that I should have a positive attitude.  When I played the Creek Club on Long Island last week I went with excitement.  The first few holes were relatively pedestrian.  But I waited it out and by #6 the course soared. I was glad I waited it out.

[Bill_McBride]

I decided a long time ago to have a positve attitude when i play a new course.  Periodically, however, I find that difficult to ignore the hype of a course.  Sometimes the hype tends  to sour my attitude.  Last week I played Bethpagae Black.  I tried to have a positive attitude but the over-hype of the course had soured my attitude.  Playing the course, however, changed my mind.  I loved it.  It just reiterated my previous thought that I should have a positive attitude.  When I played the Creek Club on Long Island last week I went with excitement.  The first few holes were relatively pedestrian.  But I waited it out and by #6 the course soared. I was glad I waited it out.

Tommy, you thought #1's green was pedestrian with that incredible right side bank?  You have become jaded!  

[Adam Clayman]

 I turned away quickly -- I am starting to get sick of myself!

Tom, You better get over it, or do what I saw Heather Locklear does, ignore it.

The time I saw her at the supermarket, was a week when she was on at least three covers of major publications that stare back at you in the grocery line.

What a pro!

 

[Tommy Williamsen]

I decided a long time ago to have a positve attitude when i play a new course.  Periodically, however, I find that difficult to ignore the hype of a course.  Sometimes the hype tends  to sour my attitude.  Last week I played Bethpagae Black.  I tried to have a positive attitude but the over-hype of the course had soured my attitude.  Playing the course, however, changed my mind.  I loved it.  It just reiterated my previous thought that I should have a positive attitude.  When I played the Creek Club on Long Island last week I went with excitement.  The first few holes were relatively pedestrian.  But I waited it out and by #6 the course soared. I was glad I waited it out.

Tommy, you thought #1's green was pedestrian with that incredible right side bank?  You have become jaded!  

Bill, the green site was pretty good, but there are a lot of holes that have similar characteristics.  It did'nt hurt that I stuffed my second shot.  It was good but the course from 6-16 is just awesome.  

But you are right it is easy to get jaded.  Sometimes many of us nitpick a little too much.  We get to play such good courses that we forget that even "weak" holes on a great course are great holes on most other courses.

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm a member of the Seth Raynor Society so I look so hard for the good in his courses that I doubt that I can see the bad.  I think that is a very good thing because it makes me more happy then sad.

I'm almost there with Doak because he has been kind to me...Good for both of us.

I have higher expectations of Pacific Grove then Pebble Beach...

I don't read anything in print so marketing has zero effect...I once thought Ran should sell ad space but I guess not from what I hear.

[Mike Hendren]

This could get me booted from the treehouse, but notwithstanding the fact that I am a Donald J. Ross apologist I was redanmanned at Southern Pines - and not because of the conditioning.

I will play Lawsonia Links in mid-August and will love it.  I just know it.

Mike

[John Kavanaugh]

I know we have several people on this site who have a responsibility to their magazines to not love everything.  That is the price they pay.  For those of us who are not in that boat I would like to know the downside of focusing on the good of every course to the extent that every report is ranerificly glowingly good.

Why would anyone post a bad comment about any architect who takes the time to post on this board and even goes so far to extend their friendship.  What is gained from the negativity?  Do you honestly think you are making them better by your observations.  Magazine employees are exempt of course as their allegiance to their readers outweighs the burden of friendship.

[Brent Hutto]

It may be beyond some people's self-control ability but it is certainly possible to adequately reflect ones negative experience of a golf course without making it insulting, dismissive or turning it into a beat-down of the architect or course owner.

That said, if you played a much looked forward to round at a course of good reputation and found it a thoroughly miserable experience with no redeeming features it would probably be gentlemanly to limit your comments to a basic statement that you didn't find it to be something you could recommend. I mean, if it seemed that bad to you how much could be accomplished by listing 20 or 30 things that are wrong with it and going off on a tirade about how overrated it is in your opinion? Past a certain point, you wouldn't be able to notice a redeeming characteristic if it bit you on the ass.

I must say, though, that I've never played a round at a highly recommended course that wasn't at the minimum pretty darned fun. With my game, I just can't reasonably be all that hard to please. I'll mention one disappointment, such as it was. I played in the King Putter festivities the year it was at Stevenson Ranch. There are some interesting green countours and generally a good job of tying greens into the rest of the hole but the constant enroachment of unplayable native grass areas and the overall flatness of the course made me quite glad that I was there with a big group of friends so the competition and social elements were top notch. If I were playing there by myself or with a random group of strangers it would have seemed pretty ho-hum in total.

Now see? That's a fairly negative summary review yet I can't imagine that the course's architect would want to go home and kick his dog after reading it. What would be gained by making it sound like I had wasted three days of my life playing a dog-track that should be bulldozed to make way for pasturing cows? There is a tendency to hyperbole and exaggeration in both positive and negative directions in Internet discussions. We just need to avoid exaggerating our negative experiences, not self-censor them altogether. And it would perhaps be good not to go too overboard when we have a good experience, either.

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