The Trump Tour with some Jaka conspiracy theories too

[Mike Sweeney]

George, I think so far he has not learned the real lesson: that his PT Barnum p.r./marketing tactics are not working.  No one whose opinion is taken seriously rates his courses the way he wants them to.  He has a cult following, but not much more than that.

Jim,

The USGA has selected his NJ course for the Junior Girls. Guess what, the 1998 Junior Girls was the first step in Merion getting back into the Open rotation. NJ and/or Florida is ranked by all three publications Golf, Golf Digest and Golfweek on either their National or State list. Bamberger obviously walked into that article wanting to not like him or his courses and obviously changed some of his views. It is hard to say it is just a cult or that it is "not working".

While there may be a little Shivas in me on this thread, it is interesting to me that he has such staying power in the media.  

[Mike Sweeney]

At least Keiser's are all open to whoever wants to plunk the $$$ down purely as a willing public consumer and his success is based on ongoing and repeat acceptance of the quality of the product.  

Dick,

Mike Keiser's first course The Dunes Club was and still is private. Thank-you for embracing your status in the GCADSHOF.  

[Jim Nugent]

Mike, Trump has a few courses that are rated pretty well.  But even they are not rated what he wants and says they deserve.  All his declarations, protestations and rants do not change the fact that he cannot buy or bluster his way into the golf course architecture hall of fame.  I don't think he gets that, though.  

Hosting a junior, or any other USGA event, is nice.  Doesn't say anything about how good the course is, though.  Bellerive got the U.S. Open in 1965, five years after the course opened.  While I haven't seen the recent changes, it was not a top course before that or even close.

Time will certainly tell the tale.  I predict none of Trump's current courses will ever rise to the heights he has assigned to them.  I also predict he never will learn the lesson from them, and build a course that is truly one of the greats.    

[RJ_Daley]

Mike, I was an early inductee of the GCADSHOF, and it is getting so crowded, we on the board of governors are thinking of raising the standards.  

So, Trump has at least 4 ultra private that he is flogging in the press, 1 open to pub.  Keiser has soon to be 4  maybe 5 public that sell themselves, and 1 - 9 holer private.  

I'd like to see the same basic 50 questions on Keiser's interview, asked and answered so candidly by Trump.  

[Mike Sweeney]

So, Trump has at least 4 ultra private that he is flogging in the press, 1 open to pub.  Keiser has soon to be 4  maybe 5 public that sell themselves, and 1 - 9 holer private.  

Dick,

Sorry if I am picking on you but I must now go the other way on you. There are no ultra private Trump courses. Ultra expensive yes, ultra private no. When the basic criteria is write a check, that is just expensive.

The Dunes Club sounds affordable and thus Mike K can keep it ultra private.

[HamiltonBHearst]

Mr. Sweeney

Very well said about the Trump clubs.  Ultra-expensive does not mean exclusive.  

Purchasing one of the few remaining J-class boats does not get you in the regatta.  

Seems like most golf writers would be well served to remember this.  

I will add that Mike Donald is the only person I have heard that preferred Westchester to Bedminster.  Is he looking for a club pro job?

[Tony_Muldoon]

I like Michael Bamberger's writing and am more convinced to think again about Trump because he was intrigued by the up close and personal experience.

As Rich says he seems to be really into golf, even it’s in a way that does not fit in with our prejudices. I find it had to believe he would find the time to spend a couple of half days half spinning wheels in a casino or selling a flat to a journalist.  And if you are smart you will have to admit he knows something you don't I.e. how to make a small pile a large one.
If what he craves is a top 100 course then why doesn't he employ Tom Doak?  (For the purposes of this argument I'm assuming Tom has the highest % hit rate of courses in the top 10 over those completed).
Well it's possible he knows he hasn’t had the kind of sites TD would want but it's also probable that his calculator speaks even louder than his clubs and his weakness/strength is that he knows what an affluent golfer wants better than the rest of us, hence he builds what the market wants; choosing a convenient location close to market over a brilliant location as a destination. Seeking top 100 status is just trying to put a cherry on an exquisitely iced cake. I doubt he looses sleep over the gap between how he describes his courses and the way others do.

Tom has he ever approached you?

[Pete Lavallee]

If what he craves is a top 100 course then why doesn't he employ Tom Doak?  

Tom has a terrible track record when it comes to waterfalls.

[Adam Clayman]

And Curbs!

[George Pazin]

George,

If you and I went out for a round of golf today at a Mike Keiser and a Donald Trump public course, guess which one is cheaper to play?

As Rihc mentioned above in so many words, he is a quirky guy who obviously loves golf. We have more than a few of those around here!

Mike -

I'm not of the populists on the site, so I don't begrudge either of them the right, or even the desire, to profit from their ventures.

I guess it's just a matter of approach. Mike Keiser seems genuinely interested in building a superior product, whether that means learning by playing and thinking about the great classic courses, interviewing and hiring new unknown thoughtful designers, as well as polished professionals, and/or seeking input from the golfers who visit Bandon. By contrast, The Donald seems interested in wanting people to love his courses, and by extension, him. He doesn't seem too interested in learning why people like or dislike his courses, just whether or not they do - and heaven forbid they don't.

Of course, I haven't met either, I could be totally wrong in my read of each.

On a completely separate note, I don't really get the accolades for Bamberger, either. I find his writing to be overly pretentious, and only occasionally insightful.

But, then again, I was a math major, not an English major.

 

[Jason McNamara]

And Curbs!

Never have I seen cart paths described in such loving detail.

[Mike_Cirba]

Donald Trump absolutely LOVES to play golf and now LOVES to build golf courses.  He's as passionate about the game as most of us nuts.

Whatever else anyone feels about him those things are clearly indisputable.

[Doug Siebert]

Has anyone got a picture of those cartpaths?  I mean, they have to be pretty damn special for Trump to give a free membership to the guy who made them!

Come to think of it, I've heard the guy who put in the cartpaths at a couple local courses here has free golf and cart from both them too -- but he had them just pay for the concrete and he provided everything else for free.

[RJ_Daley]

Maybe they are high tech asphalt cart paths.  Maybe Barney has a poster of a signature Trump (R) cart path on his office wall...