Peninsula North: this Sunday

[Chris Kane]

Just a reminder to the Melbourne guys that the get-together is this Sunday - 1pm at Peninsula's North course.  Green fee is $44.

Players:
Justin Ryan
Paul Daley
Mike Clayton
Geoff Slattery (MC)
Peter Bessay (MC)
Chris Kane
Brian Walshe
Nic Phipps
Mike Cocking
Matt Cohn
Danny Goss
Shane Gurnett

Look forward to seeing you all there!

[Shane Gurnett]

Mike / Chris

Thanks for organising yesterdays game for us all. Much appreciated.

Great to the the course as "work in progress" and once those intial four holes are bought up to scratch, the whole thing should fit together beautifully. The rolling terrain is terrific and the new bunkering blends in very well. I hope the members there apprecaite it!

Especially liked that short 13th hole with the two-tiered fall away green. Great stuff.

Shane

PS Next stop will be at Commonwealth in a month or two.

[Chris Kane]

Shane,

What did you think of the 18th, with the new bunkering and new green?

I thought that the terrain there is beautiful, and conductive to designing some really good holes.  Most of the new holes there work really well.

Your liking of the 13th wouldn't have anything to do with the birdie would it?  Seriously, its a really good hole, and a nice change of pace from the long holes which proceed it: 9-12.

[Shane Gurnett]

The clearing of the scrub left on 18 just highlights how severe the hole doglegs from the left. Off the tee there are now options to hit it right of the bunker, over the trap (big hit) or left across the rough. Its a much better hole than it was, although the tee could probably go back another 10-15 metres.

The heath has really consolidated in many areas of the back 9 and looks really good. Its an underused way of filling in bare land.

Mike made mention a few times of the proposed composite course for any future tournaments which would work well. Plenty of space for the crowds and the corporates etc. Peninsula may just end up being the best new course(s) we have in Victoria.

[Brian Walshe]

Chris and Mike,

Thanks for organising the game, it was a very enjoyable afternoon.  I was very impressed with the new bunkering, not only did it look great but it had you thinking the whole time.  Seemed to be a couple of RMW like features.  The bunker behind 9 (I think it was 9 ) which looked to be flush with the back of the green but actually had a little swale between reminded me of 6 West.

Interesting to compare the first 4 versus the rest.  Perhaps you should keep the fairway bunker 100m short and right on 3 as a reminder.......

Brian

[Shane Gurnett]

The bunkers, particularly the faces, are a lot like those at Mikes other course Ranfurlie. Given the habit of the sandbelt courses of keeping the bunker lips very clean and sharp, maybe Mike could enlighten us as to the longer term view on how "his" bunkers will be maintained. I like the slightly jagged effect to the bunkers at PN, but just wonder if the members will want them cleaned up as the courses setlles down.

[Paul Daley]

Great to hear that you enjoyed the North Course, Shane and Chris. At the heart of it all, the course is fun, playable and interesting. It makes good use of the natural rise and fall, is loaded with arresting vegetation, and offers a variety of holes. I've been banging on about short-par 4's for so long
I'm almost hoarse: Way to go! I agree about your assessment of the short 13th, actually, the whole stretch is noteworthy, just like the 'loop' at Yarram in Gippsland. One visual highlight is standing on the par-3 tee and spotting the "lone pin" through a tree cutting, on the horizon.

[Chris Kane]

Paul,

That back nine is a wonderful stretch, which the possible exception of the magnificent 17th hole!  In particular, 12-16 are great, with not a weak or uninteresting hole present.

I think I remember that the week it opened, you described Mike's renovation as perhaps his greatest ever work, and possibly the best design job seen here since the golden age.  Does this opinion still apply?

There is no doubt that this course has changed from a shocker by some reports, into one of the better courses in Victoria.  Again, we can pose the question: where does it fit among the sandbelt?  Similar question we asked about Ranfurlie, and its a really hard one to answer.

[Shane Gurnett]

Chris, it might be a little early to make a call on the course until the first 4 have been redone. Thats said, the land for these four is pretty good, so anything is possible. I'd be interested to know which course the members are playing as their current preference. My memory of the South is weak as I haven't played there for a long time, but I cant say I recall it being better than the new North.

The variety of holes on the North course makes you want to come back and play it again, which is always a great sign. Just a bunch of good fun holes to play which blend seemlessly through the back nine in particular.

[Paul Daley]

Chris:

As race caller Bill Collins - the 'accurate one' used to say, ..."too early to call ... but hold onto your hat!" That
said, PN has everything in place to get ahead in life. But
what competition it will face from the plethora of courses around and those coming on stream; not necessarily in quality, but in 'noise' value.

I am very fond of Mike's work at Portsea, and without being dismmisive of Ranfurlie, view the 'work in progress' on the North Course as his finest effort to date. Similar empathetic treatment of the opening four holes should only cement the claim.

Also what is intriguing is the classification. It cannot be called restoration, is not the usual modernisation in the sense of building back-breakingly long holes to curb the 'big ugly three' - shaft, pill and head, is not retro-fitting, but seems more of an appealing make-over. Hopefully, this 'softly softly' approach to renovation becomes a new trend in Australian golfing circles.

By contrast, MC's great work at Victoria GC has much more of the restorative air about it.

Chris, is MC listed on the Stock Exchange?  

[Paul Daley]

In acclaiming Peninsula North, due recognition should also be accorded to John Sloan and his construction team. The work carried out, including "finishing" touches would suggest a real team effort! In my opinion, he is the new Morcom of the new millenium.  

[Dr Kildare]

Sorry Paul, but Bill's biggie was the legendary "Kingston town Can't win ".

When are you lads heading up to Qld ? I seem to be on my pat up here ?

[Justin_Ryan]

There is certainly a lot to like about the North course, and Shane, I think you're memory is pretty good, I don't remember the South course being anywhere near as good as what we played.  Like you, I also liked the 13th green, but can see why it may not be popular with those lacking imagination around the greens.  In addition to fixing the first four holes, Mike also has the opportunity on 6 to build his own version of RMW10, arguably the best short par four in the country.  An outstanding driveable par four would be the perfect finishing touch.

Chris
Where in the sandbelt?  I'm reluctant to overhype it, the fact the weather was perfect and the company good may have helped, but it has to be getting towards the top.  I would put it above YY, Huntingdale and Commonwealth in my relatively uninformed opinion.  The terrain is second only to RM, and it was terrific fun to play.  Some of the greens were a little uninteresting and didn't really seem to match the holes (ie 6,8) but the same can be said for all of the aforementioned courses.

[Paul Daley]

Dr K:

Say hi to Paddy Malone for us.

I recall Bill's great line about Kingston Town. I hated racing, but could listen to him all day. Early bout of cancer robbed
the country of a real icon.

QLD golf: what have you got in mind?  

[Dr Kildare]

Well here's my call,

The three new Shark designs have some merit. Brookwater ($65-75), The Glades ($130) and Pelican Waters ($50-60). All Troon managed.

Robina Woods (maybe $50-70) is and old fave of mine too.

My mail is that American Golf is on the way out as the Aus market aint what they expected. Wouldn't be surprised if Troon headed the same way. Very low numbers on Pelican Waters with coupons offered frequently. Brrokwater is still brand new but don't know if anyone above a 15 hcap will head back too much for the pain. In saying that, I think Brookwater is the pick of the lot if you like a stern test.

[Chris Kane]

Dr Kildare,

If we can get discounted rates, as well as have the designer and an associate play with us at each of the courses (as has happened at both Ranfurlie and Peninsula: with Mike Clayton and Mike Cocking), I'll be up there in a flash.

What do you think of the Brisbane courses, such as Brisbane GC, Indooroopilly and RQ?

[Dr Kildare]

CK

I could get the Marsh design boys to come along to Robina or Palm Meadows but with the American ownership I wouldn't hold my breath on a discount.

Sharky won't return my e-mails so I don't think he could join us at one of his tracks. The Troon lads are also a bit scottish when it comes to discounts.

Of the Brizzie layouts, there are really only a couple of mentions. RQ, Brisbane GC, Indooroopilly, and Pacific GC.
I really think Pacific is the sleeper. A couple of iffy holes but some nice variety. Ross Watson did a bunch of the greens there a few years ago.

From where I sit here on the Gold coast there are four designers in about a kilometre redius.
Marsh
Watson
Papworth (ex Marsh)
Williams (ex Marsh, ex Royal Melb Super)

[Mike Clayton]

Shane
I see the bunkers staying with the same look -obviously the weathering will have an effect but that could only be good   I certainly don't see them being cleaned up.
They have a terrific superintendent there who understands perfectly how to manage them.

The alterations to the first four should make a huge difference simply because the course will enjoy a sense of continuity from start to finish.The 17th is still far from ideal but I think it can be improved by getting the tee back and re-building the green.

Paul
It wasn't ever a job of restoration because there was nothing to restore- the origional bunkering was never up to the standard of Morcom's great work in Melbourne which all went on well before the North was built.There were also several very poor dogleg holes on the origional layout but that problem has largely been solved over the years
Peter Thomson made the very good third hole out of the origional 3rd and 4th which were both terrible holes.
Nor was it a job of 'modernization' because the South is the big long course and they didn't need two of them.

What is reallyt amazing is that the North is on the second best bit of land on the sandbelt (RMW) but the course was not seen by any as being worthy of a spot in the top 40 in the country.
With the first four done I think it might be in the top 15.Maybe even better.

[Danny Goss]

I'll echo the thoughts of the others. Great day on a great course. I also liked 13 as a short par 4 but the one before was also very good compared to what it was like previously. I liked the "sandy waste" effect up the left side and the tee is in a much better position than previously. Thanks to all for the invitation.

By the way.........who is  this new CK guy that seems to know a lot about golf course architecture?  

[Brian Walshe]

Sunday was educational as far as the difference between two styles on the same pice of land.  Contrast the bunkering and greens on 3 and 17 (I really can't help laughing out loud at that fairway bunker short and right on 3, what the hell were they thinking) and the bunkering on the other par 5's.  On 3 all the options across the fairway were really removed by the three fairway bunkers facing you on your second, so just lay it up.  The totally wrong spot, right, so you had to play over the greenside bunkers, was the most bunkered....  As for 17, well let's just say that whoever designed the green must have had a really serious slice.

On Mike's Make Over (copyright Paul Daley) par 5's there was a bunker exactly where you wanted to fire your third in from and it was positioned so that laying up would leave you a little further back than you wanted and carrying it was very marginal.  Bail out to the side of it and the line in becomes much tougher.  Decisions, decisions.

Hardly seems like rocket science but obviously the boys on 3 and 17 work on a different agenda.

Mike,

On 13, if the 14th tee hadn't been so close to the green would you have had it so it favoured a shot from the right rather than the left as it does now?  You mentioned Sunday you thought the better players might be tempted to try and drive it, but from the tee it looks very tight (even CK's human stipmeter, Matt Cohn used an iron) so have you considered opening it up a little to tempt people more?

Oh and as far ranking PN, well if the first 4 and the 17th turn out as well I think Top 15 is a very modest goal.

Brian

[Chris Kane]

Danny,

Nobody knows who I am or what I'm like, maybe not even myself!  

[MikeClayton]

Brian
We never really thought about the 14th tee when placing the 13th green
For someone to drive the green they have to hit it over the left bunker which is 30 yards short of the green and about 265 yards to fly.
I can see someone like Geoff Ogilvy doing that with a 3 wood and he was the sort of player we had in mind .
Really they are the same sort of decisions he would face at the 4th at Woodlands if it was 50 yards longer.
I can really see why many of the members hate it- I do however wonder if many have made much attempt to understand it.Probably they are also struggling with the concept that a little hole can be really difficult

[Chris Kane]

Mike,

What are your plans for the 4th?  I didn't have time to properly view the plans on display in the clubhouse.  Are you able to give some kind of rough timeline as to when the North will be "complete", ie. when all the holes have been modified (either the routing, greens, bunkering or all three)?

[Mike Clayton]

Chris
The 4th tee will go to the left and back about 20 yards.I think it is a much better angle up the fairway from there.
It also gives the first four holes more teeth -currently they are all relativly simple and there is a need to introduce a little more difficulty to the first 8 holes.
The bunkers will de re-built to reflect the style of the rest of the course.
The green ,also, will be re-done but will still reward a drive close to or over the fairway bunkers on the right.
It has always looked a little strange with all those little humps and mounds around it especially when those features were never a part of Sloan Morpeths design.
It has the potential to be a really good hole.

Paul
You refered to John Sloan as the 'Morcom' of his generation.
He does a wonderful job. Bruce Grant should not be forgotten, however, because he is the one who really knows how to do those bunkers.
He learnt a lot working for Claude Crockford all those years ago at Royal Melbourne

[Paul Daley]

MC:

Agreed, Bruce Grant's contribution was never meant to be ignored; working for Claude Crockford provided both he and brother Graeme with a head start in their respective careers.