[Nathaniel Amrine]

Detroit News doesn't elaborate on exactly what best means. Is that part of the problem? Or does that add to the intrigue?

Why did 110,000 Detroit News readers - presumably teachers, barbers, GM workers, Ford workers, Ford executives, financial analysts, trash men and doctors - vote Milham Park (again, not even an eastern Michigan course), above Treetops, Arcadia Bluffs, Shepards Hallow, or the Gailes?

Quick: Ask 110,000 Detroit golfers to name the top Michigan course. Who comes out on top? I'll say that more than 50% have heard of Arcadia Bluffs.

But to the paper and apparently a majority of people, Milham Park was selected best for some reason.

Perhaps it was deemed best by the majority of 110,000 people by:

It's value and conditioning
It's location and value
It's location and conditioning
It's conditioning and service
It's architecture and value
It's architecture and facilities
It's location and facilities and value
It's routing and challenge and facilities
It's challenge and prestige and value
It's conditioning and routing and location
It's facilities and prestige and history

...perhaps the totality of what Milham has to offer makes it the best.

I will be leaving nearly 1400 miles away soon, and can say without doubt that it will always be my favorite course. Why is it so hard to believe that several other people feel that way? It must be because Golf Digest, Golf World, and Golf Magazine didn't rank it. Haven't we had this conversation about rankings and their validity before?

[John_McMillan]

Why is it so hard to believe that several other people feel that way?

Because the methodology of the rating is set up to produce garbage a good percentage of the time.

I don't have anything against Olive Garden, and I've had meals there that I've enjoyed.  However, anyone who wants to make the case that Olive Garden is the BEST Italian restaurant in the state of Michigan is not someone with whom I can have a conversation about food.  

Taking the beloved Milham Park out of the discussion, #2 on the Detroit News poll is Wawashkamo Golf Club and #3 is Fox Hills.  Do you agree that these courses are better than the courses listed by others (Arcadia Bluffs, High Pointe, Treetops, etc)?

[Andy Troeger]

Come on now...John, I mean...its the OLIVE GARDEN  

I'll take my GD list with Arcadia and Tullymore I'm afraid, although I'd make it a point to try to get to Milham Park next time I'm in the area if I can.

[David Kelly]

Shapeless bunkers, encroaching trees, flat looking greens.  I'm not seeing it - from the pictures at least.

[Ari Techner]

I grew up in Michigan and have played almost all of the relevant public courses in the state.  I lived in Kalamazoo for a summer and played a ton of golf at Milham Park.  In fact it was pretty much the only local course that I played with any regularity.  It is a very good golf course, especially for the money.  It has some good terrain and some interesting holes and greens.  I am very surprised to hear that it is only on 80 acres and I would question the accuracy of that, it is tight in spots but not THAT tight.  While it is good it is not even close to the best public course in Michigan.  I could easily name 25+ off the top of my head that are better.  That entire ranking is a joke, any ranking that would list Fox Hills anywhere should pretty much be disregarded.  I am not sure how they came up with these rankings but I wouldnt read too much into it.  However if you are in the area and looking for a quick cheap game Milham Park is a place to take a look at.

Nathaniel,

Thank you for the pics.  Brings back some good memories for me.      

[Brad Klein]

Second place is Wawashkomo, a wonderful century-old 9-holer on Mackinac Island. Nothing from Treetops, Boyne, Arcadia Bluffs, the Orchard, High Point, or anything in the Traverse City area.

That is quite the poll.

[Garland Bayley]

What is the definition of public? Many people outside this website think public means municipal.

[Brad Klein]

Public means accessible to the public w/o prior membership, though regardless of cost. All municipals (government owned or developed, whether by city, state, county or federal) are public, but not all publics are municipals.

Public golf accounts for 70% of all U.S. courses and includes municipals (15% of all courses), privately owned daily-fees and resorts (since anyone can stay and play, even if, like Pebble Beach, it costs a fortune).

[Garland Bayley]

Public means accessible to the public w/o prior membership, though regardless of cost. All municipals (government owned or developed, whether by city, state, county or federal) are public, but not all publics are municipals.

Public golf accounts for 70% of all U.S. courses and includes municipals (15% of all courses), privately owned daily-fees and resorts (since anyone can stay and play, even if, like Pebble Beach, it costs a fortune).

That's your definition Brad, and it can be found in many golf books. However, it is not the "public's" definition. They don't read the same books you and I do. To the public, a public course is one that is owned by the public. Go to your local muni and ask muni players what a public course is.

The definition of public golf course that the golf industry would foist on us is counter-intuitive IMHO.

[Brad Klein]

Garland,

I don't get your point. I'm not worried what you think everyday golfers think. People think all sorts of things. Language and basic terms can parse meaning clearly enough, even if most people don't accept or incorporate those understandings.

If all you ever did was base your analysis on the terms of what you think others thought, you'd get nowhere. A little clarity and precision help, even (especially) if it is not how everyday golfers might think. And in any case, I think you underestimate what they think. The folks at my muni understand as clear as daylight the difference between a privately-owned daily fee and our own publicly-owned daily fee.

[Garland Bayley]

...
The folks at my muni understand as clear as daylight the difference between a privately-owned daily fee and our own publicly-owned daily fee.

Of course they do. But, in casual conversation would they refer to a privately-owned daily fee as a public course? Enough of them wouldn't to make the top courses in the poll be munis.

[Joe Hancock]

So do we need to poll all the golfers to find out how informed they are about issues before we discuss anything here?.......

Joe

[Nathaniel Amrine]

I think that over the last 10 years especially, the term, "public golf course" has evolved into several translations, variances, and ultimately differences.

For instance, in one corner - as stated earlier - we have the privately-owned daily fee course. In the other corner we have the publicly-owned daily fee course, which ironically enough can or cannot be owned by a small group of public people.

From there we have the "upscale daily fee course" which has revolutionized golf. This is not to be confused with the "upscale daily-fee club", which in turn should never EVER (heaven forbid) be confused with a "players club."

It's exausting.

A muni-though is always locally owned and operated by a small government. Such as a city.

[RSLivingston_III]

I think that over the last 10 years especially, the term, "public golf course" has evolved into several translations, variances, and ultimately differences.

For instance, in one corner - as stated earlier - we have the privately-owned daily fee course. In the other corner we have the publicly-owned daily fee course, which ironically enough can or cannot be owned by a small group of public people.

From there we have the "upscale daily fee course" which has revolutionized golf. This is not to be confused with the "upscale daily-fee club", which in turn should never EVER (heaven forbid) be confused with a "players club."

It's exausting.

A muni-though is always locally owned and operated by a small government. Such as a city.

Isn't a public course one that anyone could call and get a tee time to play? Upscale clubs to me are just public courses if a non member can call and get a tee time.

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