[Tom Yost]

Also, never use a skycaddie if you do not want the world to know wher you are or have been.  

Doesn't the tinfoil helmet take care of that problem?  

Tom

[Geoffrey Childs]

Also, never use a skycaddie if you do not want the world to know wher you are or have been.  

Doesn't the tinfoil helmet take care of that problem?  

Tom

John always carries a huge wad of cash around because he doesn't believe in credit cards either.  American Express knows exactly where you have been too and they probably know a lot more then skygolf inc.

[Brent Hutto]

Right, for 99.99999999% of golfers, though, it doesn't matter if its 102 or 107 because the chances are their wedge isn't going to go exactly 104 every time.

No, but it's going to go some distance on any given swing and even if you just know plus or minus five yards how far that distance will be that's still closer than I can eyeball a semi-blind shot over a bunker from a bad angle.

I'm not a good player at all but I've spent some time hitting my wedges to find out how far the ball flies with good swings and bad ones. My "number" for one of my wedges is 81 yards. It may not go exactly 81 all that often but it goes 83 way more often than it goes 90 and it goes 79 more often than it goes 70. So knowing that a shot is somewhere between 70 and 90 yards versus knowing it's somewhere between 79 and 83 does make a difference, even for bad players. It makes a huge difference for anyone good enough to hit their wedges accurately 3/4 of the time.

Like I said before, if you don't want a 150 plate in the fairway and you don't want a sign on Par 3 tees giving you the yardage and if you don't look to see whether they're using pin placement "1, 2 or 3" today then that's pretty cool stuff. But if distance matters at all don't try to argue that it only matters give or take 20 yards.

[Mike Hoak]

In some respects these devices can be more useful for the poorer player despite their inability to dial in distances.  For example, this weekend I saw a competitor use his Skycaddie to get an exact distance to the green from an adjacent fairway.  I also saw someone get a specific distance from a ball that was sitting on an adjacent driving range where the shot needed to be played over a set of pines to a green the golfer could not possibly see.

It also saves time.  To get a yardage with a skycaddie, you just look down at the device hanging on your bag and the number is staring you in the face.  No more walking around to find sprinkler heads.

[Brent Hutto]

No more walking around to find sprinkler heads.

Exactly. Without the Skycaddie, I used to look for sprinkler heads and I used to pace off carry distances over a bunker on wedge shots. With the Skycaddie, I play pretty much the same way except it saves me ten seconds here and a minute there of walking around. Occasionally the Skycaddie gets out of sync and I have to fall back to the old way, which reminds me that I'm saving a lot of trouble (if not a lot of time since they people I play with are usually far slower than me in spite of shooting scores 10-15 strokes better).

[JSlonis]

You guys actually paid for and use this crap?

PT Barnum was a Goddamn genius.

Do you instruct your caddies on the first tee to withhold all distance information for the duration of the round?  I'd like to be there at SFGC, CPC etc when you do.  

YES!

Okay...now I see where you are coming from.  

We show up at the first tee, never know any yardages, eyeball and guess everything, never touch our ball until holed out and the game of golf is better for it.

Am I getting warmer?

[Daryl David]

Also, never use a skycaddie if you do not want the world to know wher you are or have been.  

Doesn't the tinfoil helmet take care of that problem?  

Tom

John always carries a huge wad of cash around because he doesn't believe in credit cards either.  American Express knows exactly where you have been too and they probably know a lot more then skygolf inc.

Thats, nothing, I know a guy that won't get a TIVO, because they keep file of everything you watch.  

[Jordan Wall]

Right, for 99.99999999% of golfers, though, it doesn't matter if its 102 or 107 because the chances are their wedge isn't going to go exactly 104 every time.

No, but it's going to go some distance on any given swing and even if you just know plus or minus five yards how far that distance will be that's still closer than I can eyeball a semi-blind shot over a bunker from a bad angle.

I'm not a good player at all but I've spent some time hitting my wedges to find out how far the ball flies with good swings and bad ones. My "number" for one of my wedges is 81 yards. It may not go exactly 81 all that often but it goes 83 way more often than it goes 90 and it goes 79 more often than it goes 70. So knowing that a shot is somewhere between 70 and 90 yards versus knowing it's somewhere between 79 and 83 does make a difference, even for bad players. It makes a huge difference for anyone good enough to hit their wedges accurately 3/4 of the time.

Like I said before, if you don't want a 150 plate in the fairway and you don't want a sign on Par 3 tees giving you the yardage and if you don't look to see whether they're using pin placement "1, 2 or 3" today then that's pretty cool stuff. But if distance matters at all don't try to argue that it only matters give or take 20 yards.

As if there are no sprinkler heads or yardage poles to refer to..



those are free, too, btw...

[Jim Franklin]

Is every course available on Skycaddie or does each course have to sign up? If they have to sign up, how do they do that? I am pretty sure my course isn't on the program since I have never seen a Skycaddie on our course.

[Daryl David]

Jim.

You can browse available courses here: http://www.skygolfgps.com/SG_SkyVault_SearchCourses.aspx

When you subscribe, you download the courses from the net.  The type of subscription you get dictates how many courses you can have on your unit at one time.  

[Mike Hoak]

Not every course is available, although their database appears to be quite large.  I'm not sure how the process works for which courses get mappped by Sky Golf.  The full list is on their website.  If a course is not part of their database, it's relatively easy to map it yourself.  

[Brent Hutto]

As if there are no sprinkler heads or yardage poles to refer to..



those are free, too, btw...

Yes, if you want to spend a little extra time and effort you can almost always get the yardage by pacing it off. Like I said in my original post, we're just haggling over price.

There are certain occasions in life when I spend a little money in order to get something done faster or easier than I could do it for free. Having a Skycaddie is one of them. But in the end...I want to know how far I have to hit it whether it's by pacing it off, reading a Skycaddie, asking a caddie or looking at a yardage book.

[Brent Hutto]

The usual tradeoff is that if the club or course owner will stock a certain number of Skycaddie units in the pro shop, they will send someone out to measure the course to "4-star" level of detail (i.e. map out the green outlines). It is possible to get them to map a course otherwise but that's the usual deal.

[Doug Siebert]

Also, never use a skycaddie if you do not want the world to know wher you are or have been.  

GPS works by receiving signals from satellites, it broadcasts nothing.  The only way "the world" will know where you have been is if the skycaddie has a memory that records where you went (some GPS units will do this for you, I have no idea if skycaddie does) and someone steals it.

If you are worried about the world knowing where you are, forget your skycaddie and turn off your cell phone and remove the battery!

[Doug Siebert]

Whats it matter if your 150 out compared to 152 or 153...save the $350...

--How about if you're 150 from the center of the green and it's somewhere around 126-138 to clear the bunker between you and the hole?

If the pin is in the center, just hit it 150 with enough spin to stop it dead!

--Or it's 150 to the center of the green but the flag is just five paces from the back of the green which you figure is "about" 170 "more or less"? And let's say there's a four-foot dropoff with deep rough back there.

Make sure you don't hit it 170.  I'd hit a smooth 8, which is about 160-165 and won't ever go 170 unless there's wind or hard greens or a flyer or...

--Or better yet it's a Par 3 where you can't see the bottom of the flag but there's a bunker in front and water over the green and all you know is the card says "#17 Par 3 164 Yards" but the tees seem to be awfully far forward today?

Play it for 150 just in case because it is much easier to get up and down for par from the bunker than from the water!

--Or finally, you "think" it is "about" 102 to carry the front bunker and you know you can hit your pitching wedge exactly 104 yards. Is that enough club or is that 102 really more like 107?

Are there more than a handful of players who can only hit their PW 104 yards but who are consistent enough that they'd really take it for a 102 yard carry even if they knew it was EXACTLY 102 yards?

Of course serious players just wing it, right? You wouldn't see a good player worrying about the difference in 102 and 107. Heck, that's why they don't even play practice rounds on a new course...

Sorry for the Patrick Mucci impression there, but its the easiest way to answer questions embedded in a quote...

Anyway, feeling you need to know distances to the yard is just silly.  You do realize that temperature and even barometric pressure alone will affect carry distance enough to cause a 104 yard wedge to fall short of the 102 mark one day and carry past the 107 yard mark the next?

I don't know whether pros' range sessions include some calibration for the day's conditions by hitting a few clubs to figure out their figures for a given day, but I'll bet they just get the exact yardage and then fudge the numbers based on the day's conditions, the wind at the moment, terrain, etc.  So what's really the difference if I get a yardage number off a sprinkler head and fudge it based on guessing that a given green is 40 yards deep and the pin really looks way back so I add 14 yards for it?  Maybe I'm a few yards off, but I'm probably not going to guess the wind's effect exactly, or see that I'm actually hitting 9.5 feet downhill.  Not to mention that I'm not a machine the standard deviation of even well hit shots is probably the dominant factor!

Its really ridiculous for anyone with a handicap less than +4 to be worrying about this stuff.  For every stroke higher than that your handicap is, I'd say you can be another 1/2 yard off with no measureable impact to your game (so about +/- 5 yards for me, which sounds about right)  There's nothing more hilarious than seeing guys who can't break 100 pacing off distances from sprinkler heads before choosing their club.  Well, its only hilarious when they are keeping up with the group ahead of them

[Brent Hutto]

Anyway, feeling you need to know distances to the yard is just silly.  You do realize that temperature and even barometric pressure alone will affect carry distance enough to cause a 104 yard wedge to fall short of the 102 mark one day and carry past the 107 yard mark the next?

Knowing distances to plus or minus one yard is overkill. I'll settle for knowing it plus or minus three yards with wedges and plus or minus six yards with longer clubs. Trouble is, I can't eyeball a 150-yard shot even plus or minus ten or twenty yards and even from, say, 80 yards my eye is easily off by ten yards or so quite often. So somehow or another I need to know a yardage by something other than dead reckoning. Reading it off my Skycaddie is the fastest and easiest way to get it (although not the most reliable, that would be a laser which is neither fast nor easy IMO).

I don't know whether pros' range sessions include some calibration for the day's conditions by hitting a few clubs to figure out their figures for a given day, but I'll bet they just get the exact yardage and then fudge the numbers based on the day's conditions, the wind at the moment, terrain, etc.

According to the best player I've discussed it with, they spend a lot of time practicing and calibrating those distances in various conditions. But not right before the round, I mean ongoing practice at other than tournament times.

So what's really the difference if I get a yardage number off a sprinkler head and fudge it based on guessing that a given green is 40 yards deep and the pin really looks way back so I add 14 yards for it?

From outside of 80-100 yards I think using the Skycaddie is the functional equivalent of pacing off distance from sprinkler heads or other yardage markers. From closer distances it's just like pacing off the distance to the flag. The difference is it's faster, probably more accurate, less distracting to ones playing partners and it works even in situations where there are no sprinklers, etc. The tradeoff is that it costs money, you have to carry it with you, you have to charge batteries and occasionally it doesn't work and you have to revert to pacing off distances the old-fashioned way.

Just so you and Jordan are clear, I am not claiming any fundamental advantage to a yardage computed by Skycaddie vs. one computed by any other method. In the end you get the same number most of the time.

Its really ridiculous for anyone with a handicap less than +4 to be worrying about this stuff.

I'd say you guys are "worrying" about the matter, not me. I glance at the number and hit the shot, no worries. For some reason the fact that Skycaddie exists annoys or mystifies some people. I don't know why you would have the idea that carrying a little box with the number on it implies a player sitting and agonizing over differential equations before deciding to hit a 7-iron. I don't have to design the thing, just keep a fresh battery in it and read the number whenever I want to know how far it is.

For every stroke higher than that your handicap is, I'd say you can be another 1/2 yard off with no measureable impact to your game (so about +/- 5 yards for me, which sounds about right)

That's a very precise and authoritative sounding principle. Unfortunately, it's completely made up and has not relation to reality...

If a middling player can hit a wedge shot the correct distance half the time and can eyeball it correctly half the time then about one time in four he'll be on the money. If he can know the correct distance every time he doubles his chances of hitting it close.

If a poor player only hits a wedge shot the correct distance one time in five and can eyeball it correctly half the time then he can still double his chances by knowing the correct distance every time. And that poor player probably faces many more in-betweener shots per round than the middling one (and far more than a good one).

I'll grant you this. If someone frequently doesn't get the ball off the ground and if they have not gone out and practiced enough to know how far their clubs travel plus or minus three or four yards or if they truly are unable to break 100 playing by the Rules then there's a lot of things they can just ignore, including yardages.

There's nothing more hilarious than seeing guys who can't break 100 pacing off distances from sprinkler heads before choosing their club.  Well, its only hilarious when they are keeping up with the group ahead of them

I'm not sure what to say other than assure you I have often shot 100 playing with someone who shoots 80 and been waiting on them every hole. Well, maybe I ought to say I have done that shooting 95. If I'm playing bad enough to shoot 100, 102, 105 or something then I'm probably in the woods and in the water and blading shots over the green and it's pretty ugly. Hard to play that bad and finish in much under three hours. But for my "usual game" in the 90's I can play any course in 2-1/2 hours that you can play in 2-1/2 hours (at least if I have my Skycaddie)  

[Marty Bonnar]

Could one of you Skycaddie users please tell me what accuracy the makers claim for the device?

thenkyou,
FBD.

[Brent Hutto]

Sean,

I've tried the no-numbers approach for a few rounds recently and just can't stick with it. At my home course it's no big deal because I know if I'm a little short or long of my usual spot is for that shot. But if I'm way out of position or on a less familiar course it just seems silly to guess instead of knowing where the target is.

In the end, I guess I don't see what's so sad about it. If you're standing there by your ball and you can see the flag and see the bunker between you and the flag it's the most natural thing in the world to want to know two things: How far is it to that flag? How far is it to get over that bunker?

I've played golf with people who can look at it and say with confidence "It's a 5-iron to the flag and every bit of a 6-iron to get over the bunker" but I can't do that. Unless I have some reference, that 5-iron distance can look short-ironish or fairway-woodish just as often as it looks like a 5-iron. One of the best wedge players I know has probably never in his life hit a shot inside 120 yards where he knew a yardage number and he always gets it close (and almost always makes the putt in my experience).

But I can't do that and I think if I practice that way every day for six months I still wouldn't be able to do it. But when you tell me it's 82 yards to that flag then about two times out of ten I'll hit the ball pin high to one side or the other and another couple times out of ten I'm only off by 4, 5, 6 yards. If glancing down at box sitting there on my speed cart for three seconds will let me get it right 1/3 of the time and guessing will get it right less than half that often I don't see why anyone would find it strange to want the better odds.

And one day I hope to get good enough to hit it the distance I mean to a lot more often. But I doubt very much I'll ever be able to tell the difference between 120 yards and 130 yards on a semi-blind approach shot on a strange course.

[Brent Hutto]

Sean,

I can appreciate the game you're describing but never having been exposed to it, my mind tends to gravitate toward wanting to get as close to the hole as I can with every shot.

I'm pretty sure my graphite-shafted driver with a metal head gets the ball closer to the hole than I could with a wooden clubhead and steel (or God-forbid wooden) shaft. Likewise, knowing that a shot is 120 yards instead of 110 or 130 let me (on average) get the ball closer by eliminating the chance that I'm trying to hit it the wrong distance.

I have played nine holes here or there, maybe even eighteen once, with a half-dozen clubs and no bloody idea of yardages or hole locations. Hit it, find it, hit it again. It's a very relaxing way to spend an hour or two. Heck, I like walking around a golf course in the evening with no clubs and maybe a ball to roll on the putting greens if they're interestingly contoured.

But if you tell me the object is to play a hole in fewer strokes than the other guy does or to write down the total strokes at the end of the round, it's not in my nature to say "I don't give a crap if I hit it over the green or take eight strokes to get it in the hole" while trying to win a contest. It would be like having a blindfolded darts contest, sounds like fun for about three throws but if I'm betting a quarter on the outcome I want to look at the board.

[Chris Cupit]

You guys actually paid for and use this crap?

PT Barnum was a Goddamn genius.

I bought my bushnell (with slope) for use during construction--it was absolutely worth every penny!

I agree though that it is a shame playing by feel or sight has gone the way of the dinosaur.  

[Scott Coan]

I don't believe the golfer should have any tools which aid in determining yardage other than what is committed to memory.  I wouldn't go so far as to say it is cheating to use a gun or whatever, but I don't think yardage aids (including caddies) are good for the game.  

Sean, I certainly agree with you that technology has intruded upon the game - just wondering to what extent you take it.  Do you ever consult 150 yard markers when playing into a green?  Do you reference the scorecard yardages of par 3's prior to selecting a club?

I recall talking to a guy once that did not even keep score.  I could not for the life of me understand it - I suppose he was the ultimate purist!

Cheers

[Mike Benham]

Right, for 99.99999999% of golfers, though, it doesn't matter if its 102 or 107 because the chances are their wedge isn't going to go exactly 104 every time.

As far as I know, for the first 350 plus years of existence, all until about 6 years ago, golf was fine without weird distance devices.

Who pooped in your Wheaties today?  

But then again, maybe that is why your handicap is between a "0 and 6, depending on the day" ...

[Tony_Muldoon]

My views have been aired often enough before so I won’t give the same argument but this SG 2/3/4 stuff is new to me.  Are they available in  the UK?


A screen showing you what’s ahead?  You reset the parameters?


I play Golf to get away from the screen….


I live/work in London and everyday you see tourists, perhaps making their one time visit, and they do it by waving a digicam around.  Do I think they experience London as fully as they might?   Do I want to have a computer to distract me when I’m out in the open air?

I want the full experience not the digital one.

I played with someone using a Bushnell for the first time last week. He was preparing for his Club Championship the next day, the pins wouldn’t be changed and he was a very low handicapper. I can see why competitors might want that advantage, but for a regular game?


Unbelievably sad.

[Brent Hutto]

Here's a picture of one similar to my own, Tony. Basically, as you walk around the course it updates in real time the numbers you see on the display. The big number is your distance to the center of the green. The three smaller numbers are the front/middle/back of green yardages. On most courses the outline of the green rotates to reflect its shape (and resulting front/middle/back chord line) as it appears from where you're standing. You can also use a button to move the "center" point around on the green outline to make the big number be to any point you wish.


There is no Stroke Saver style overhead map view of the entire hole, which may be what you were imagining. Just the green outline and the numbers. On some holes there is an alternate screen which gives text labels for various hazards (for example "short of water" or "to carry bunker") along with a number for that yardage.

The Vacation

Once there was a man who filmed his vacation.

He went flying down the river in his boat

with his video camera to his eye, making

a moving picture of the moving river

upon which his sleek boat moved swiftly

toward the end of his vacation.  He showed

his vacation to his camera, which pictured it,

preserving it forever: the river, the trees,

the sky, the light, the bow of his rushing boat

behind which he stood with his camera

preserving his vacation even as he was having it

so that after he had had it he would still

have it. It would be there. With a flick

of a switch, there it would be. But he

would not be in it. He would never be in it.

                          --Wendell Berry

[Mike Hendren]

We just completed a local open tournament and the biggest complaint from the winner was how when paired with Skycaddettes he could not get them to quit announcing out loud their and his distances.  I say buy one if you must but keep the information to yourself.  

Amen!

Played with a fine fellow this week who announced I had 192 to the pin.  I'm standing on the 142 sprinkler head with a back left pin.  I hit my 150 club to six feet.

Played with another fine fellow last year who kept giving me unsolicited yardages that never varied more than 5 yards from my estimate by looking at the 150 barber pole.  Don't remember hitting an approach within 15 feet all day so I the discrepency was not harmful.  For that same reason, I don't bother with pin sheets.

I've got no problem whatsoever with folks using these things, or sticking that stupid blue-tooth thing in their ear either.  I'm sure this appeals to the competitive and analytical (I believe Brett makes a living with numbers) players.

Me, I will never, ever, ever guy one of these things.  The money is better spent on a lesson.

Mike

BTW, can anybody help me with the blinking time LCD on my VCR?

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