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T_MacWood

Putting Greens
« on: May 30, 2003, 07:16:23 PM »
I have never putted on the Ladies putting green at St.Andrews but it looks like great fun. What are some of the better practice putting greens and why aren't more of these fabulous greens built?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2003, 07:40:02 PM »
Tom MacWood,

Ridgewood (NJ) has a fabulous, expansive, well contoured putting green, that flows into a fairly level surface at the far end, next to another, smaller practice putting and chipping green.

Winged Foot has a similar, huge, practice putting green that replicates many of the golf course greens.

GCGC's practice putting green is also large, and blends in witht he 18th green, ala Oakmont.  The green is sloped, which matches most of the greens on the golf course.

I would imagine that the cost of land and the cost to construct, and the current USGA recommended construction methodology might be the reason that these types of greens are rare.

Montclair (NJ) has a similar practice putting green.
Large and pitched like many of the golf course greens.

The Knoll used to have a practice putting green that was similar, but a clubhouse fire resulted in its demise.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
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billb

Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2003, 07:40:57 PM »
Tom,
Yes, it is a blast! On a trip to Fife a few years ago with a golf partner that was a one round a day kind of guy (not like the REAL golfers here who play at least 36) we found overselves on the Ladies Putting Green just about every afternoon.
They lay out a different 18 hole course each day, cut with fresh cups, and always a few wild holes up, over and around some of those huge mounds.
I found myself putting better with a flask of the local single malt making the round with us - or should I say starting the round with us?
I also noticed quite a few "pitch and putt" courses in Scotland. Of course, just about every town has a "Ladies 9" and most of the "championship" venues have a relief 9 or second 18. Heck, the hotel we stayed in (The Lundin Links Hotel, great place, highty recommended) had a putting green and practice bunker in the courtyard!
It seems that the Scots learn the game on the smaller, shorter, less challenging layouts before venturing out on the main links.
Outside of the silly miniature golf courses in the USA, which can hardly be considered learning the game, we have very few alternatives golf layouts.
Maybe if we did and people learned how to play on those we would not have such a problem with slow play (as has been so thoroughly discussed in other threads)?
Bill
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2003, 07:47:34 PM »
Tom;

One of the best I've seen is at Pocono Manor in PA.  Lord know's who designed it, but Donald Ross, William Flynn, and George Fazio all did work on the courses there and it sits at a high, sloping point away from the lodge, and is a roller-coaster of creative fun.

For placement, there is one at RTJ Sr.'s Green Lake Golf Course (one of his earliest works) that is walled in against a cool clubhouse, as is Lord's Valley CC's, (Norman Woods) in PA.  

The GIANT putting green at Legends in Myrtle Beach deserves mention as well.  Wonder if Tom Doak was involved?

One of the WORST putting greens I've seen that attempts high drama but is simply horribly overdone is Ron Fream's at Redhawk in Temecula, CA.  It crosses that line between fun and interest, while still being "puttable" and worthwhile for practice, to an exercise in seeing if you can keep your ball on the green. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
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Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2003, 07:54:47 PM »
I agree with Patrick, the putting green at Ridgewood is wonderful.

My favourite in the UK is Walton Heath's.  Like the clubhouse, it's removed from the course and contained within a old fashioned courtyard.  It's expansive and has some beautiful contours.

The putting green at Pacific Dunes is pretty small.  But there's a deep trench in it, that looked to be a simple development of the natural terrain.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2003, 08:42:27 PM »
If I recall correctly (going back to 1985!), the Little Aston golf course (Sutton Coldfield, England) actually has (or had) an 18-hole putting course along side the 1st tee of the real course. I did not look at it too closely, but I recall that there were actually separate putting "fairways" for each hole.
Maybe some of our UK friends (Paul Turner?) can comment further on this.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2003, 08:43:10 PM »
Oakmont. It is one in the same with No. 9; so you get to see the terror of the 9th's pin and a very large area to traverse.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2003, 09:30:17 PM »
Friars Head has one of the largest putting greens I've ever seen, maybe 30,000 or 40,000 square feet? (Perhaps Kenny could clarify).  

The Dragon in Northern California has an 18 hole putting course with each hole having its own fairway.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2003, 10:35:58 PM »
Ken Bakst is apparently a well known practice freak. Even if Coore and Crenshaw had a lot to do with the amazing practice facility at Friar's Head I think all the credit for it should go to Ken Bakst anyway.

Oh, what the hell, I should just say that despite the bumps along the way what Ken Bakst pulled off at Friar's Head has to be the Everyman dream of all us architectural Walter Mittys out here!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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wsmorrison

Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2003, 10:55:06 PM »
I too enjoy putting on the Himalayas by the first fairway of TOC, it is great fun for everyone.  My oldest son and I have had some spirited contests after a long day of golf and sightseeing.  One of the best practice putting greens I know is also in Scotland, the very large putting green between the hotel at Turnberry and the chip and putt course.  The green is huge and severely sloped on the hillside below the hotel.  Looking out over the Ailsa course, past the lava dome, and once in awhile seeing Ireland off in the distance is a sight to behold.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Andy Levett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2003, 01:47:25 AM »
The one at Mount Juliet is great fun - strategic golf in miniature.  Few match the par of 53 for 18 holes, or avoid at least one visit to the water.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2003, 03:04:03 AM »
Tom:  A couple of times early in my career, I tried to do a wild putting green like the Himalayas, and my clients simply did not understand them.  Two-thirds of the green at High Pointe was abandoned within 18 months of its opening.

A lot of clients insist to us that what they want is a fairly flat green so that people can practice their short putts and gain confidence.

They also don't want to maintain a large area of putting green just for fun.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2003, 05:50:36 AM »

Quote
A lot of clients insist to us that what they want is a fairly flat green so that people can practice their short putts and gain confidence.

They also don't want to maintain a large area of putting green just for fun.


In the immortal word of Charlie Brown: Auuuuuuggggghhhhhh!

Why is there so little ... vision out there?

You can practice short putts anywhere -- on a flat green, on an undulating green, in your living room! What fun is that?

Tom -- Have you ever proposed a "mixed" practice green -- part flat, and part Himalayasish?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2003, 06:11:56 AM »
Axeland and Proctor built a very extensive practice facility at Bayside in Ogallala.  There are two large putting greens.  One is rather normal for undulations, and one is very large and in terrible shape because it has so many poofs and rolls that the staff can't figure out how to mow it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2003, 10:14:17 AM »
Ah the glories of putting on the Ladies Putting green at ST. Andrews. Bandon Dunes has a mighty nice one too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2003, 01:37:49 PM »
Tom,

Here are a few pictures of the great putting green you talked about:








My daughter and son Annika and Jesper


Annika again




« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

T_MacWood

Re: Putting Greens
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2003, 06:17:42 PM »
Brian
Very nice pictures. I like Annika's grip, I bet she has a mean slap shot.

I don't know if it is still around but Cooden Beach was supposed to have a fantastic putting green designed by Fowler and Simpson.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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