Doonbeg

« **on:** August 21, 2002, 03:23:36 AM »

Just played Doonbeg in Ireland. Beautiful setting - bring your camera - leave your clubs at home. Start with 185 euros for a round. The practice faciility is better than most in Ire. The fairways are wide enough but miss them and you'll not find your ball in the tall fescue. On two occasions you must cross a fairway when going from green to the next tee. Now for the worst aspect - the green complexes are much too severe. Mostly large greens with severe contours (one green with a bunker in the middle) or a couple of small greens requiring the perfect shot to stay on the green. If you miss, you will not recover. When I play links golf, I see it as an opportunity to be creative in shotmaking. The combination of bunker placement and severly contoured greens makes this target golf in a links setting. It's beautiful but not playable.

« **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2002, 04:30:48 AM »

mbp

Doonbeg has been a topic of discussion on many threads on this site. Perhaps you could scroll back through the discussion pages for some alternate views.

I'm interested in what you have to say, however you probably need to be more specific on which holes/greens were not to your liking and why. Please post some more details.

This course seems to polarise the views of the punters, who either love it or hate it. Were there any postives in the design?

« **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2002, 06:07:51 AM »

I have a large packet of information on the course and it does indeed look SENSATIONAL, inspiring beyond belief.

Conversely, some of the reviews to date have been disappointing (and I'm talking about from those who have played it this year after the fairways were widened and some greens tamed inbetween 2001 and 2002).

In general, Doonbeg sounds like Tralee and the original National Golf Club in Australia - both are absolutely stunning yet can gooble up golf balls, thus frustrating/alienating those with a stroke play mentality. Meanwhile, the members predominately play match play events at Tralee and National and swear that their course is the best in the world.

However, I do know for a fact that the people behind Doonbeg are aware of the concern regarding a loss of continuity in one's round from losing one too many golf balls and they are keen to see that problem modified (at least as much as is possible for what must be a severe, windy site). Aren't some of the fairways now 70 plus yards wide so that has to be a good start surely?

I can't wait to play and see it for myself.

Cheers,

« **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2002, 07:46:40 AM »

Ran, i am sure when one invests in a new course in an area that requires overseas players to make the return on investment desired, then one wants an enjoyable and critically aclained review. I would hope the changes are made to get this desired result. Your comment of traylee is interesting for i never concern myseld with score over thereand i loved the back nine and much of the front. Not as an architectual modal, but good dramatic fun golf holes to be played over and over again.

« **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2002, 08:16:18 AM »

Ran,
We played Tralee the next day (2nd time I've played there). The back nine at tralee is just as spectacular and much more playable even with wind. For example there is a par 3 on the back nine at Tralee where one is advised to play the shot off of the hill left of the green. By comparison, the 14th hole at Doonbeg is a short par 3 (111 yds that played 135 yds for us); the green is small wrapped around a hill. If you don't hit the green, you're gone; if the grass on the hill to the left of the green were shorter than 12 inches, perhaps on could fashion a shot off of the hill. I could provide more examples if you wish. Yes, the fairways are wide enough and I lost only one ball for the round. The problem is the green complexes. With regard to the routing, going from 5 to 6 you pass through 14 and going from 14 to 15 you pass through the middle of the 5th fairway. Check out the web site; it is very nice (www.doonbeggolfclub.com, i think). Play it and see for yourself. Everyone has to make a choice about where the value is and what is fun to play (e.g. Pinhurst #2 or Southern Pines).
All the best.
MBP

« **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2002, 08:25:54 AM »

Why is it I have such a problem with people changing thier courses or policies because of complaints from customers?

Most have to be so subjective that to listen to one would offend a handful of others. And the likelyhood is the original idea was worthy, just not someonelse's cup of tea.

Why are the course managers who placate the complainer's such weenies?

« **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2002, 10:08:14 AM »

Adam:

I'm not clear whether you are trying to make a general point or you mean to suggest no changes were appropriate to the original design of Doonbeg.

If it is the letter, based on my four site visits to Doonbeg, I would have to disagree. I'm glad the mangement is listening and hope they get it right.

« **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2002, 05:24:43 PM »

Just curious how Sharkies design team is set up. I know Bob Harrison does most of the design work in Australia but does the firm has another design team in the US ?

If so, who did most of the design work on Doonbeg ?
It seems it was a bit of a "baby" for Sharkie and no doubt had a bit more hands on role than usual.

I know Harley Kruse bobs up here every now and then. Can you shed any light ?

« **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2002, 11:01:42 AM »

Mike asked me to post these images.

The first is the 14th hole as posted in the website

The second is the actual angle of play more towards the water and over the hillside

It certainly looks more difficult from the actual angle of play.

The third is the routing with some crossover holes.

« **Reply #9 on:** August 24, 2002, 03:54:36 PM »

Three more images from Doonbeg. The first two are hole #5 and the third is from #6.

Mike can comment if he wants. They are his images.

« **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:49:19 PM »

Two more
#9

#12

« **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:52:55 PM »

Where exactly is Doonbeg?

A short drive from .... ?

Close to which other courses?

« **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2002, 06:13:14 PM »

A short drive from Lahinch or the shannon airport.

« **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2002, 06:26:55 PM »

john:

thanks

« **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2002, 09:59:29 PM »

Regarding the photo of #9, am I seeing what I think I see?

Did they get rid of the awful original design?

« **Reply #15 on:** August 30, 2002, 06:11:56 AM »

#15

rainshelter on the course

« **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2002, 06:22:46 AM »

To those who've been, seen &/or played;

Why didn't Norman use more of the oceanfront land between #1 & #15 and then again and then moving #7 or #8 more towards the beach?

Just Curious!

« **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2002, 07:02:13 AM »

John Foley:

When I first saw the property (prior to construction), I was struck by how much of the sand hills really weren't ideal for golf. If I remember correctly, the section you mention didn't naturally lend itself for golf holes.

Keep in mind that environmental restrictions prevented the Norman team from moving dirt they might have liked to. Ironically, the most dirt (I really should say sand) was moved prior to the entire project. It was in the form of people stealing sand in the area that became the first green site.

« **Reply #18 on:** September 04, 2002, 11:10:55 AM »

Doonbeg could not use ocean front land on holes 2-4, 7,
10-12, and 16-17 due to protected dune areas that contain a microscopic snail that feeds off the decaying root structure within the dunes, thus keeping the massive dunes intact.

In my opinion, some of the holes off the water (particularly 4--a great par 5, 11--an uphill par 3, and 17--a tough, uphill par 4) are among the best on the course.

When the water comes into view, or is in play, on holes 1,5,6,8,9,13,14,15,18, you appreciate the links qualities that much more because the ocean holes are intermingled beautifully with the inland holes.

Regarding some other comments regarding the severity of the greens, I found #2, 8, and 15 to be very penal. But on the flip side, the greens roll at a stimp of about 9 and the pros at Doonbeg will tell you that a good putter can two putt any green, from any place--kind of like Tiger Woods at the '97 Masters. Those greens have quite a bit more pitch than Doonbeg's and roll at about a 12 on the stimp.

I found Doonbeg to be everything that it was billed to be, i.e., awesome views, magnificent dunes, and a great variety of holes. I'm sure that the course will be tweaked to be made even better in coming years.

« **Reply #19 on:** September 04, 2002, 02:52:17 PM »

ok, I'll ask the question- How does one play Doonbeg? After looking at the website I assume I have to know Jim Nantz or one of the other names on the advisory board to actually be able to get on the course.

« **Reply #20 on:** September 04, 2002, 05:16:35 PM »

Doonbeg is accessible to all...

bmdoonbeggolfclub@eircom.net

POC - Brian McGaph
Phone - 353-65-9055246

I played Doonbeg this summer with several other GW raters and found it a wonderful example of a stunning piece of ground completely butchered by land constraints levied against an architect. Norman should have said "no thanks" after being told of his limitations....

Jonathan

« **Reply #21 on:** September 04, 2002, 07:13:03 PM »

Jonathan:

In your opinion, will (or better yet should) Doonbeg make the Golf Magazine top 100 in the world list?

« **Reply #22 on:** September 05, 2002, 01:53:48 PM »

Paul - Doonbeg hasn't a chance in the world of making GM's top 100 list (go ahead Gary, prove me wrong

)

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